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Janadele said:
The way to tell if a Messenger is from Heavenly Father or from Lucifer is to shake the hand. A Messenger from God has a physical body, a Messenger from Lucifer has not.

" In all his evil doings, the adversary can go no further than the transgressor permits him to go, and we can gain complete power to resist the evils caused by Satan through adherence to the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ." https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1974/10/power-over-satan?lang=eng
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...what about a messenger selling a message based on historical inaccuracies, demonstrable mistakes, and outright lies?
 
Slowvehicle said:
...what about a messenger selling a message based on historical inaccuracies, demonstrable mistakes, and outright lies?
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There are no mistakes or inaccuracies. The people who spread that information are doing Satan's work. Anything that could possibly demonstrate Joseph Smith was a fraud/deluded is the Devil's work.

Mormon doctrine is inherently unfalsifiable! This is of course confirmation of its divine truthy goodness.
 
The fourteenth greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he can't shake your hand.
 
tsig said:
That one?

NSFW

http://images.search.yahoo.com/imag...b=133emkebr&sigi=12e84d5r1&.crumb=Bf.9FPwgADX
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Drat, now I feel like re-reading those books.... I wonder where they are.

I do like the 'There can be no discussion with those that mock' dodge though.
Call everything that shows your faith to be made up mockery and dismiss. As long as you don't mind dismissing minor fields like egyptology, archeology, geology, biology, medicine, physics to name but a few its clear that all remaining evidence points to reinforce what you already believe.
 
Janadele said:
The way to tell if a Messenger is from Heavenly Father or from Lucifer is to shake the hand. A Messenger from God has a physical body, a Messenger from Lucifer has not.
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Do you have a single example of someone whose hand could not be shaken because they were a Messenger from Lucifer?

And how do you tell a Messenger from God from a normal person?
 
Janadele said:
The way to tell if a Messenger is from Heavenly Father or from Lucifer is to shake the hand. A Messenger from God has a physical body, a Messenger from Lucifer has not.
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This thread has contained some really far out doozies but this one just takes the cake cupcake. I know it's a logical fallacy but I just cannot believe anyone including Janadele really believes this utter fantasy.

Janadele, do you actually believe this is actually true in this world you now live in?
 
SezMe said:
This thread has contained some really far out doozies but this one just takes the cake cupcake. I know it's a logical fallacy but I just cannot believe anyone including Janadele really believes this utter fantasy.

Janadele, do you actually believe this is actually true in this world you now live in?
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If I was a fraud who wanted to take advantage of the misplaced trust of the credulous, I'd want to tell them something like that as well, then make sure to shake their hands vigorously.
 
Janadele said:
Pixel, if you are sincere and listen, the Spirit of Jesus will testify to you.
... did you "have faith in Christ" before asking the Eternal Father?
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Naturally you have to have faith before you can ask to receive faith :boggled:
 
Janadele said:
The way to tell if a Messenger is from Heavenly Father or from Lucifer is to shake the hand. A Messenger from God has a physical body, a Messenger from Lucifer has not.
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Okay...you shook the missionaries' hands, and that was "proof" they were from God. But...ughm...shaking MY hand would not be proof that I'm a messenger from God, right?

So...if I were to come to your door, and fill your head with awesome ideas from my religious beliefs, and you had a burning in your bosom, and you shook my hand...you might be led away from the LDS because that is all the proof you would need I've been sent by God?

" In all his evil doings, the adversary can go no further than the transgressor permits him to go, and we can gain complete power to resist the evils caused by Satan through adherence to the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ." https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1974/10/power-over-satan?lang=eng
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Then why is there evil? If everyone has complete power to resist it, then why does evil ever happen to anyone? It would follow those who want to make evil would always be stymied by the ability of the victims to resist....
 
Janadele said:
The way to tell if a Messenger is from Heavenly Father or from Lucifer is to shake the hand. A Messenger from God has a physical body, a Messenger from Lucifer has not.

" In all his evil doings, the adversary can go no further than the transgressor permits him to go, and we can gain complete power to resist the evils caused by Satan through adherence to the principles of the gospel of Jesus Christ." https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1974/10/power-over-satan?lang=eng
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https://www.google.com/search?q=dick+cheney+shaking+hands&tbm=isch
 
DragonLady said:
Okay...you shook the missionaries' hands, and that was "proof" they were from God. But...ughm...shaking MY hand would not be proof that I'm a messenger from God, right?
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Because it was still a coupla clicks away in my post, here's an actual quote of section 129 from the D&C, which explains the hand-shaking thing.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/129?lang=eng

There are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bones—

2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.

4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.

5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.

6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—

7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.

8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.
9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.
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So it doesn't work with actual humans. It's the kind of test that most LDS members would never have occasion to use in their whole lives, since, like most people, they're not visited by religious hallucinations. Cat Tale said she's never heard of anyone in the church using it or needing to use it. We're talking Saul-to-Paul kind of situations, not missionaries knocking on the door.

Which is why it's not a relevant answer to the question of how to know what to trust, though I still stand by my solipsis comparison, to illustrate why it's a problem with any decision about what to trust.
 
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Janadele said:
The way to tell if a Messenger is from Heavenly Father or from Lucifer is to shake the hand. A Messenger from God has a physical body, a Messenger from Lucifer has not.
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That is one of the funniest things I have ever read. As a businessman, I have shaken many hands.

Not...ROFL

NOT one... ROFL

No, Seriously...Not one has ever...ROFL

Hrrm, hmmm, Settle down now. Not one has ever turned out...ROFL.

No, really. I can do this...ROFL

No, wait...hold on humm, hrmm, snigger...No, wait, really I can do this.

Nobody I ever shook hands with ever turned out to be insubstantial. It's the kind of thing you would notice.
 
Janadele said:
The way to tell if a Messenger is from Heavenly Father or from Lucifer is to shake the hand. A Messenger from God has a physical body, a Messenger from Lucifer has not.
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That's interesting, a brand new woo belief, one I haven't run across before. I would ask Janadele more about it, but I've been lurking this entire thread, I can see that the chances of her responding with something other than an irrelevant scripture quote are close to zero.
 
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