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Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.

In my previous post regarding my own conversion I stated "I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord." Not only a knowledge, but an understanding of that knowledge. It is a one time experience of a testimony direct to oneself from Jesus Christ... who has promised to all who read the Book of Mormon, and ask in prayer with a sincere heart, that the answer of the truthfullness of it will be given. This one time experience is different from the continuing testimony of the Holy Spirit who also assists in understanding and knowledge when one asks.

So why doesn't it work for everyone? Ol' JC asleep at the wheel when some people are sincerely reading and praying?

Frankly, Janadele, you're old enough to understand that feelings are immaterial to facts. Facts stand on their own, and one fact that stands clear is that the Book of Mormon is pure codswallop.
 
Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.

In my previous post regarding my own conversion I stated "I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord." Not only a knowledge, but an understanding of that knowledge. It is a one time experience of a testimony direct to oneself from Jesus Christ... who has promised to all who read the Book of Mormon, and ask in prayer with a sincere heart, that the answer of the truthfullness of it will be given. This one time experience is different from the continuing testimony of the Holy Spirit who also assists in understanding and knowledge when one asks.

Well, Janadele, they are not a rare human phenomena and neither are they unique to your brand of the truth.

A religious experience (sometimes known as a spiritual experience, sacred experience, or mystical experience) is a subjective experience in which an individual reports contact with a transcendent reality, an encounter or union with the divine. Such an experience often involves arriving at some knowledge or insight previously unavailable to the subject yet unaccountable or unforeseeable according to the usual conceptual or psychological framework within which the subject has been used to operating. Religious experience generally brings understanding, partial or complete, of issues of a fundamental character that may have been a cause (whether consciously acknowledged or not) of anguish or alienation to the subject for an extended period of time. This may be experienced as a form of healing, enlightenment or conversion. The commonalities and differences between religious experiences across different cultures have enabled scholars to categorize them for academic study.[1]

Many religious and mystical traditions see religious experiences (particularly that knowledge that comes with them) as revelations caused by divine agency rather than ordinary natural processes. They are considered real encounters with God or gods, or real contact with higher-order realities of which humans are not ordinarily aware.[2] Sceptics or scientists may hold that religious experience is an evolved feature of the human brain amenable to normal scientific study. Such study may be said to have begun with the American psychologist and philosopher William James in his 1901/02 Gifford Lectures later published as The Varieties of Religious Experience.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_experience (last edited by Satan)
 
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What makes you think that converts to other religions don't have the same experience as you did?

ETA: This is a serious question which I think deserves a response, Janadele, not just a rhetorical one. You said that the "burning within and ... flood of knowledge" was "a significant sacred event" which was somehow different from "regular occurrence" that happen with other religious groups. How was it different, and how do you know it was different? I'm really curious about this.


Insularity and resultant arrogance.
 
Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.
Had you just visited Taco Bell? Seriously, it sounds to me like a description of mild heartburn.
 
Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.

In my previous post regarding my own conversion I stated "I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord." Not only a knowledge, but an understanding of that knowledge. It is a one time experience of a testimony direct to oneself from Jesus Christ... who has promised to all who read the Book of Mormon, and ask in prayer with a sincere heart, that the answer of the truthfullness of it will be given. This one time experience is different from the continuing testimony of the Holy Spirit who also assists in understanding and knowledge when one asks.

Before you move on, I would sincerely appreciate it if you would identify which of the inexcusably boorish and uncivil behaviours to which you describe yourself subject were perpetrated by Egyptologists explaining the correct translation of the Book of Breathing. If you please.
 
Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.

In my previous post regarding my own conversion I stated "I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord." Not only a knowledge, but an understanding of that knowledge. It is a one time experience of a testimony direct to oneself from Jesus Christ... who has promised to all who read the Book of Mormon, and ask in prayer with a sincere heart, that the answer of the truthfullness of it will be given. This one time experience is different from the continuing testimony of the Holy Spirit who also assists in understanding and knowledge when one asks.
But there are problems.

 
Janadele - Let's say on that particular day of your conversion, it had been the seventh day adventists, or the methodists, or some other christ centered religion, who came to your door with a message direct from god to you.

If they had asked you to pray to god, in sincerity, in the name of jesus, would the holy spirit have manifested the truth to you? After all, he is the same god, is he not? Or, is there a different god for every religion?

It's a matter of pure chance the mormons showed up at your door. You were golden to them, because you were gullible and vulnerable, and they need to have as many baptisms as they can, in order to score points with the various authorities of the church.
 
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Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.

In my previous post regarding my own conversion I stated "I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord." Not only a knowledge, but an understanding of that knowledge. It is a one time experience of a testimony direct to oneself from Jesus Christ... who has promised to all who read the Book of Mormon, and ask in prayer with a sincere heart, that the answer of the truthfullness of it will be given. This one time experience is different from the continuing testimony of the Holy Spirit who also assists in understanding and knowledge when one asks.

As was pointed out to you in this thread a long time ago, people report experiences like this all over the world, but they are led to all sorts of different religions. If everyone that reported such experiences was drawn to the LDS, it might mean something. But given the variety of "revealed truth", isn't it more likely that these experiences are simply products of human psychology?
 
Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.

In my previous post regarding my own conversion I stated "I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord." Not only a knowledge, but an understanding of that knowledge. It is a one time experience of a testimony direct to oneself from Jesus Christ... who has promised to all who read the Book of Mormon, and ask in prayer with a sincere heart, that the answer of the truthfullness of it will be given. This one time experience is different from the continuing testimony of the Holy Spirit who also assists in understanding and knowledge when one asks.

Let me get this straight.
You prayed to believe,
and then You believed.

The problem with what you describe is it is entirely subjective. I do not doubt you believe it. I do not doubt you "know it to be true". But this isn't evidence of anything other than your own belief. I am happy that you have this, but it really doesn't make it true.

We have an immense capacity to deceive ourselves.
This is what allows women to think they can "change" their abusive husband.
This is what allows a person to go onto American Idol and not realize that they can't sing.
This is what allows a person to not study for an exam become surprised when they fail.
This is what allows people to live in accumulated garbage and not realize the problem they have.
This is what allows people to spend way beyond their means and not realize the trouble they are in.
This is what allows a drug addict not realize they are ruining their life.
 
Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.

In my previous post regarding my own conversion I stated "I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord." Not only a knowledge, but an understanding of that knowledge. It is a one time experience of a testimony direct to oneself from Jesus Christ... who has promised to all who read the Book of Mormon, and ask in prayer with a sincere heart, that the answer of the truthfullness of it will be given. This one time experience is different from the continuing testimony of the Holy Spirit who also assists in understanding and knowledge when one asks.

I spent three days reading the BoM from cover to cover and never felt a thing so either I was insincere or the answer was that the BoM is not true.
 
If I pray, asking if the BofM is a sham, and I get a burning in my bosom, is that god confirming it's a sham?
 
Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.

In my previous post regarding my own conversion I stated "I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord." Not only a knowledge, but an understanding of that knowledge. It is a one time experience of a testimony direct to oneself from Jesus Christ... who has promised to all who read the Book of Mormon, and ask in prayer with a sincere heart, that the answer of the truthfullness of it will be given. This one time experience is different from the continuing testimony of the Holy Spirit who also assists in understanding and knowledge when one asks.

How do you reconcile the fact that the book is factually incorrect with what you wrote above?
 
My family is planning on attending a Civil War re-enactment. It's a huge deal with many people dressed to the nines in period costumes.

I have heard it's very realistic, and that the participants take things very, very seriously.


Here's a reenactment of Pearl Harbour. The participants are obviously taking this very seriously as well:


 
Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.


But it is a regular occurrence among many groups, and has been throughout history.

If one of the various gods allegedly responsible wanted to bolster it's sacredity and stop people making jokes about it then it should just show up some time and get on with a bit of righteous smiting.

And if it was a bit more forthcoming with meaningful answers than any of its sheeps have ever been then it might well clear up a few misunderstandings as well.

Win/win, gods. Get with the programme.
 
Dismissing an answer from the Lord as merely "a burning" as if it were a regular occurance amongst many groups is making light of a significant sacred event and totally misunderstanding.

In my previous post regarding my own conversion I stated "I was asked to read the first few chapters and to pray to Jesus Christ and enquire as to whether it was true. On doing so, a burning within and a flood of knowledge overcame my being, there was no denying the truthfulness of The Book of Mormon and the message the LDS Missionaries had delivered to my door personally to me from the Lord." Not only a knowledge, but an understanding of that knowledge. It is a one time experience of a testimony direct to oneself from Jesus Christ... who has promised to all who read the Book of Mormon, and ask in prayer with a sincere heart, that the answer of the truthfullness of it will be given. This one time experience is different from the continuing testimony of the Holy Spirit who also assists in understanding and knowledge when one asks.

If only you'd also received the ability to share that knowledge. It must be very frustrating to you, to have all of that revealed knowledge but only be able to post in platitudes and quoting scripture.
 
If only you'd also received the ability to share that knowledge. It must be very frustrating to you, to have all of that revealed knowledge but only be able to post in platitudes and quoting scripture.

Convenient might be the word. Ineffable "knowledge" is bulletproof to the believer and can be proclaimed with justification.
 
I do understand how compelling a religious experience can be because I had one myself when I was about 12, except mine was more an anti-religious experience (I was praying desperately, and was suddenly overwhelmed with an absolute conviction that there was nothing and no-one listening, my words were disappearing into a void). I discount that experience for the same reason I discount Janadele's - we have a good idea of what causes such subjective experiences, and know that they are not a reliable way to gain insights into the nature of reality.

When "knowledge" gained from such a dubious source is contradicted by empirically verified facts then the latter must take precedence.
 
Before you move on, I would sincerely appreciate it if you would identify which of the inexcusably boorish and uncivil behaviours to which you describe yourself subject were perpetrated by Egyptologists explaining the correct translation of the Book of Breathing. If you please.
There has never been such a suggestion from me. To my knowledge I have no acquaintance with any Egyptologists.
 
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