LDS

[Slowvehicle]

What inaccuracies? Whatever is in the Book of Mormon is fact. It is Scripture.

Anachronistic cultivated domestic barley; anachronistic horses; anachronistic domestic cattle; anachronistic steel.

So are you saying that you did not copy lists from anti-Mormon sites,

Yes. That is exactly what I am saying. I waste no more time on "anti mormon" sites than I waste time on sites refuting that all this is a dream of lord Brahma's.

Do you claim that tBoM does not make the assertions listed in post #167? Is it a translation/version/redaction thing?

but that instead you yourself read the Book of Mormon and isolated these quotes and researched yourself to prove that they were inaccurate?

Read it in 1983; during seminary.

"Barley" caught my eye, mostly due to some apologetics studies about (for instance) "corn" in the old testament; also due to controversies about hohokam and anazasi agriculture.

The livestock issue caught my eye because of claims being made at the time about the co-existence of humans and dinosaurs; and by (again) apologetics studies in which it was claimed that "horses and cows" in the New World "proved" that the geological record was false. The problem is not just that no evidence of horse and cattle fossils is found in the new world, but that new world archaeology has also failed to uncover any of the acoutrements that would have accompanied a horse-and-or-cattle culture.

The steel issue caught my eye because of the research I had done on arms and armour as an apprentice armourer (swordwright) for the SCA.

How did you do such research?

Old-school dead-tree libraries (Dallas Public/SMU/SBTS/ASU); lectures and talks; gradually, as it became available, teh interwebz...

You were not living at that time and place in mortality.

Nor were you--how do you presume to speak with authority?

You may well have witnessed as a pre mortal spirit, but then you have no memory of that time.

...a superstitious supposition, no particle of evidence for which has ever been offered. You are, of course, welcome to your superstitions. You do err when you pretend that they apply to me.

 

[tsig]

Personally I have no interest in refuting anything in the Book of Mormon. It is Scripture, as is the Holy Bible, Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrine and Covenants.

The following link to Fair addresses such issues for those who have concerns,
Fair is not an official LDS site.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms

Horse - there is some evidence, not yet deemed definitive, which suggests that the true horse may have been known in at least some parts of Mesoamerica in pre-Columbian times before Christ. There is also ample precedent for naming different animals with common names, and there are other New World candidates, such as deer and tapirs.

I find it hard to think that anyone ever called a deer a horse.

 

[tsig]

Fawn Brodie is an anti-Mormon and was excommunicated from the LDS Church.

IOW anyone who criticizes the church is automatically anti-Mormon so you won't listen to them.

Is posting the new form of door to door?

 

[Explorer]

Your blessed sister will have received her reward for her faithfulness. Rejoice in this knowledge and follow her path

Her reward was to be prematurely separated from her five children by a god who seemingly arranged for a motorbike to hit her at high speed when she stepped out into the road.

The local LDS church also stuck their noses in afterwards, and encouraged my still grieving brother-in-law to re-marry again hastefully a woman within the church who was totally unsuitable for him. Needless to say, and another child further on, the marriage failed, and misery ensued.

I have had many an opportunity to "follow her path", but none of it made any sense to me in the days of my youth. Today, as a mature and critical thinker, I know that JS was a fraud, and not a particularly good one either.

 

[John Jones]

Fawn Brodie is an anti-Mormon and was excommunicated from the LDS Church.

That doesn't make her wrong.

 

[RandFan]

I find it hard to think that anyone ever called a deer a horse.

Here is an illustration from the BOM:

That's a funny looking deer.

 

[John Jones]

I don't know why I stuck with this thread as long as I did. Must be the snow outside.

I have experienced 2 things:

* The non-Mormons on this thread have done a far better job of educating me about the LDS church far better than the Mormon or Mormons.


* The OP is incapable of a substantive discussion of the LDS church.

 

[DragonLady]

Her reward was to be prematurely separated from her five children by a god who seemingly arranged for a motorbike to hit her at high speed when she stepped out into the road.

The local LDS church also stuck their noses in afterwards, and encouraged my still grieving brother-in-law to re-marry again hastefully a woman within the church who was totally unsuitable for him. Needless to say, and another child further on, the marriage failed, and misery ensued.

I have had many an opportunity to "follow her path", but none of it made any sense to me in the days of my youth. Today, as a mature and critical thinker, I know that JS was a fraud, and not a particularly good one either.

I'm sorry your family went through that.

 

[RandFan]

Janadele, it's obvious that you are not here to actually discuss your church. You want to discuss your faith, however these are or the same things.

You believe what you believe because you believe it. Circular, though it makes most people scratch their heads. Others here have pointed out the problems that exist I your own holy book, and you seem to be unwilling to discuss them. To me, that means you really don't have faith, let alone an understanding of your religion. You stick your fi gets your ears while claiming that you won't hear the words of satan or those who disparage your church. You cannot face them, I your own thread, that you cared to discuss your religion!

You follow a religion. That seems to treat certain segment to of their followers as second class citizens. Homosexuals are denied the love they feel, and the intimacy they crave, because your vile book demands it. Even worse, your church tries to e vice this practice on tone who do not believe in Mormonism! Then you haw women who appear to be expected to marry and have children early on life. No dreams for them! No careers, no life outside having children and obeying their husband. Can women even be priests? Hold offices of power over men In your religion?

This^^^.

The magic of faith is that with it a person can believe just about anything.

Behold the power of faith.

 

[RandFan]

Her reward was to be prematurely separated from her five children by a god who seemingly arranged for a motorbike to hit her at high speed when she stepped out into the road.

The local LDS church also stuck their noses in afterwards, and encouraged my still grieving brother-in-law to re-marry again hastefully a woman within the church who was totally unsuitable for him. Needless to say, and another child further on, the marriage failed, and misery ensued.

I have had many an opportunity to "follow her path", but none of it made any sense to me in the days of my youth. Today, as a mature and critical thinker, I know that JS was a fraud, and not a particularly good one either.

If you focus only on the cheery bits of LDS life there is much good. I have many fond memories of being a Mormon. However, I've seen families torn apart. I myself have lost some friendships and some family members have estranged themselves from my family because we left.

 

[bruto]

That doesn't make her wrong.

Alas, it does for Janadele, I think. This entire sorry thread has consisted of little but the assertion that current Mormon teaching is right and anything that contradicts it is wrong, without anything additional in the way of argument or fact except the assertion that it's right because it's right. It is, of course, a foolproof argument since nothing but faith is required, but it's not getting anywhere.

 

[RandFan]

Alas, it does for Janadele, I think. This entire sorry thread has consisted of little but the assertion that current Mormon teaching is right and anything that contradicts it is wrong, without anything additional in the way of argument or fact except the assertion that it's right because it's right. It is, of course, a foolproof argument since nothing but faith is required, but it's not getting anywhere.

And that can be a very good thing. Some time ago I gave up on trying to convince my opponents. My primary goals is to have a discussion. I confess that Jandele makes that difficult but not impossible. Most importantly she demonstrates how bankrupt the theology is. It withers quickly under scrutiny. Folks who cannot substantively respond to criticism are either ignorant of facts or incapable of responding because there are no good answers for something like portions of the facsimile in the Book of Abraham being obviously faked (a portion of the facsimile was missing so Smith just added parts including a human head to a character that actually had the head of a Jackal).

You can see the evidence here.

 

[Ambrosia]

This is the idea that while all believers get to heaven, only the ones that got the most points on the exam get to the extra special heaven.

Which part of the teachings of the LDS church tell you that?

http://www.lds.org/media-library/vi...an+salvation#2010-07-12-the-plan-of-salvation

http://mormon.org/plan-of-happiness

So I read the links, and watched the vid and neither answered my question.

Can you point to the actual scriptures that teach this, upon which you base this belief.

I don't need the hand holding, baby steps stuff. Please cut to the chase.

Thankyou.

 

[RandFan]

So I read the links, and watched the vid and neither answered my question.

Can you point to the actual scriptures that teach this, upon which you base this belief.

I don't need the hand holding, baby steps stuff. Please cut to the chase.

Thankyou.

Not quite sure what you are after but you might try this.

 

[Janadele]

Surprisingly to me, and sadly, it seems there are a number of ex LDS here.

Anyone know Bob Britt, originally from New York?

 

[Foster Zygote]

They [women] do not need to "Hold offices of power over men".

Which implies that men hold offices of power over women. Why should one gender need to be defined as inferior to another? Why can't women earn the same positions of respect as men?

 

[DragonLady]

Suprisingly to me, and sadly, it seems there are a number of ex LDS here. Anyone know Bob Britt from New York ?

??? Why in the world are you surprised? This is a skeptic's forum. You'll find that most here have been exposed to many religions, and that many of us have gone through the painful and life-changing process of leaving the faith we've been raised with.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Suprisingly to me, and sadly, it seems there are a number of ex LDS here. Anyone know Bob Britt from New York ?

No, I don't. Why--would he answer the questions about barley, cattle, horses and steel?

 

[Janadele]

It is not I speaking in the Book of Mormon... it is those who compiled the records, and who wrote them while living at that time and place.

Voices from the dust.

Nor were you--how do you presume to speak with authority?

 

[DragonLady]

It is not I speaking in the Book of Mormon... it is those who compiled the records, and who wrote them while living at that time and place.

No.

That doesn't work, and you know it. They were not capable of writing the BofM, and you know it. Joseph Smith did not "translate". He invented.

I'm sorry; but that is the truth.