LDS

[Foster Zygote]

The above post clearly states that The Book of Breathings, the Papyri you refer to, was not the Papyri from which Joseph translated the Book of Abraham.

And it is clearly wrong, for the reasons that I pointed out.

 

[jsfisher]

Bingo. If you are interested there is a really good video that goes into it in more detail.

The Lost Book of Abraham

It's a little slow, but not bit. I sat through all of it and learned a thing or two. I did find it interesting that the only ones to flatly describe it as fraud were the married couple at the end of the video who'd left the LDS Church disillusioned.

 

[Janadele]

That is correct.. this thread was started to answer questions regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which were being asked in another thread off topic. The topic of this thread is not anti Mormon lies and propaganda, which is what the anti-Mormons on this thread have reduced it to.

We seem to be wandering off topic a bit. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, remember?

 

[DragonLady]

That is correct.. this thread was started to answer questions regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which were being asked in another thread off topic. The topic of this thread is not anti Mormon lies and propaganda, which is what the anti-Mormons on this thread have reduced it to.

But...you haven't answered any questions! The only thing you've done is copy and paste Mormon tenants and Mormon church decrees.

The anti-Mormons on this thread have learned a lot -from each other. But, really, what did you expect? This site is full of skeptics and people who reject religion of every flavor; especially when there's no fact-based evidence to give them any credibility.

You have done nothing whatsoever to elevate the LDS church in the skeptical eyes here. Nothing.

If that is what you are trying to accomplish, you need to answer our questions with facts and provide evidence. Otherwise, you are just spinning your wheels.

 

[dasmiller]

That is correct.. this thread was started to answer questions regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which were being asked in another thread off topic. The topic of this thread is not anti Mormon lies and propaganda, which is what the anti-Mormons on this thread have reduced it to.

How is one to distinguish "anti Mormon lies and propaganda" from honest questions? And can the "lies and propaganda" be refuted without assuming the conclusion?

 

[Foster Zygote]

That is correct.. this thread was started to answer questions regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which were being asked in another thread off topic. The topic of this thread is not anti Mormon lies and propaganda, which is what the anti-Mormons on this thread have reduced it to.

So, what, we're supposed to just accept everything you say and convert to Mormonism? We aren't allowed to point out the inconsistencies in Mormon dogma?

 

[desertgal]

Interesting thought, but I don't think in her case there is a difference.

She is apparently incapable or unwilling to really defend her faith because she won't make any attempt to respond to any question with a substantive answer.

It's irritating.

Maybe she's incapable of a substantive answer?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Originally Posted by jsfisher
We seem to be wandering off topic a bit. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, remember?

That is correct.. this thread was started to answer questions regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which were being asked in another thread off topic. The topic of this thread is not anti Mormon lies and propaganda, which is what the anti-Mormons on this thread have reduced it to.

Janadele. I will give an opinion and say this thread has run its course.
And I did find the beginning of it very interesting and informative.
There are now twenty some pages.
People either believe here or don't.
I really don't believe questions are getting answered or solved...

I will say that people are to be commended for having such a long thread
with very little of it ending up in the rubbish bin.

At this point everyone seems to be just running around in a circle and talking just to talk.

I would imagine there are better ways to spend one's time here.....

 

[Vic Vega]

It seems to me that borders on a personal attack (rather than a challenge to an argument). The same can be said for the following:

"[Janadele posts] utter nonsense" (Post 703). And there is still more: "She looks like a complete fool" (Post 711).

Such statements fall into the ad hominem category, and, in my judgment, are inappropriate on this forum.

The mods on this forum do a pretty darn good job. If they care to move or delete anything, I assure you they will. Why don't you worry about yourself instead of me? Based on the comments being made about your posts, you may find you have other things to keep you busy.

 

[DragonLady]

BTW: just in case you've been LDS for so long that you really don't understand what my post above is saying, let me clarify a bit:

Almost no one here accepts the "word of God" as being real. For most of us, God is imaginery; and nothing attributed to him or her is recognized as coming from any authority. In our eyes, God's words are in fact the words of primitive people, con artists, or nutcases. It is your job to prove otherwise.

Proof (Truth) is: argument or sufficient evidence for the truth of a statement or proposition

Evidence is and includes: everything that is used to reveal and determine the truth; and how you need to fulfill the burden of proof.

Burden of Proof means: the person who makes the statement or proposition must provide argument or evidence to defend it.

[[You provide circumstantial or direct evidence which proves what you are saying to be true. Then we will discuss, and attempt to discredit that evidence.]]

Again, we will not accept evidence from the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith's words, official church doctrine, etc as evidence to prove anything. Your proof must come from outside of the church, and preferably from verifiable sources that are not biased either for or against the LDS.

 

[bruto]

That is correct.. this thread was started to answer questions regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which were being asked in another thread off topic. The topic of this thread is not anti Mormon lies and propaganda, which is what the anti-Mormons on this thread have reduced it to.

Perhaps the mistake here is the premise under which the thread was begun. The title of the thread suggests that you wish to discuss the LDS faith, and that implies addressing controversies and questions and defending against them. But you've made it clear that this is not what you want, or what you intended to start.

Perhaps you should exit this thread and start another, in which you state at the outset that you wish to explain Mormon policies and beliefs to those who wish to know, but that you have no interest in defending them.

Take the target off your shirt. People will not stop aiming for it until you do.

 

[Vic Vega]

Maybe she's incapable of a substantive answer?

She's obviously intelligent, she's just been completely indoctrinated. She reminds me of my wife's bilogical mother who belongs to a cult called Eckankar.

 

[Slowvehicle]

That is correct.. this thread was started to answer questions regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which were being asked in another thread off topic. The topic of this thread is not anti Mormon lies and propaganda, which is what the anti-Mormons on this thread have reduced it to.

Be so kind as to explain the difference between an "anti-mormon lie" and a question about a demonstrable anti-historical fact unsupported by any evidence.

Or, just explain the anachronistic domestic barley, the anachronistic domestic cattle, the anachronistic domestic horses, the anachronistic steel technology, and the demonstrably mistranslated funerary text...

 

[kerikiwi]

That is correct.. this thread was started to answer questions regarding The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which were being asked in another thread off topic. The topic of this thread is not anti Mormon lies and propaganda, which is what the anti-Mormons on this thread have reduced it to.

Please, please, please put the quote first and follow it with your response.

ETA: your last sentence is nonsense.
What is your position on the barley?

 

[desertgal]

She's obviously intelligent, she's just been completely indoctrinated. She reminds me of my wife's bilogical mother who belongs to a cult called Eckankar.

Exactly. I didn't mean to imply she isn't intelligent. There are people who blindly believe, disregarding logic and critical analysis, even when they are capable of both. Her answers indicate she's one of that type.

Debating with one such is akin to gouging one's own eyes out with a spork: both painful and pointless.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

........ETA: your last sentence is nonsense.
What is your position on the barley?

K. The question of the Barley has been brought up a million times.
Janadele has responded.....
Most people don't buy her response. Or consider it a non-response.

Bringing it up for the millionth and one time probably won't change that.

It does appear that the same questions keep getting asked.
And most are not satisfied with the response.
Asking them one more time is not going to change anything.

Janadele is a believer in the Mormon faith.
Most of the rest of us aren't.

Yeah, she started the thread with the OP........................

But at this point everything is running circular on all levels.
And nothing is getting solved.

Best after 23 pages to say that we will agree to disagree and not turn it into 43.

 

[jsfisher]

Again, we will not accept evidence from the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith's words, official church doctrine, etc as evidence to prove anything. Your proof must come from outside of the church, and preferably from verifiable sources that are not biased either for or against the LDS.

It is unfortunate for the LDS Church that its foundation was laid so recently, relatively speaking. Joseph Smith was a demonstrable charlatan. Quite possibly may religious figures were, too, but Smith doesn't have 2,000+ years to blur the truth of his misdeeds. The record on Smith is ever so clear. Con-artist, cheat, liar, thief, racist, misogynist. Not a very likely combination for a Prophet of God.

 

[StankApe]

there is no such thing as blasphemy.

heretic!!!!!!!!!!!!!







:d

 

[Janadele]

jsfisher: There is no truth in such allegations against Joseph Smith. This is what comes from anti-Mormon propaganda.

Those who do not want to wade in error should seek the truth from LDS official sites and Scriptures.

 

[Mashuna]

jsfisher: There is no truth in such allegations against Joseph Smith. This is what comes from anti-Mormon propaganda.

Those who do not want to wade in error should seek the truth from LDS official sites and Scriptures.

Once again, you're preaching, not providing any evidence.