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Janadele said:
Shalamar said:
... I wouldn't have put it past some people to stage a 'fake' LDS ceremony that would be ridiculous to make the church look bad.
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Yes Shalamar, that is exactly what the enemies of the LDS Church are doing.
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Really? Which parts of those videos are faked? (I'm sincerely curious to know.)
 
Janadele said:
From the New Era:
"Joseph Smith had in his possession three or four long scrolls, plus a hypocephalus (Facsimile 2). Of these original materials, only a handful of fragments were recovered at the Metropolitan Museum. The majority of the papyri remains lost, and has likely been destroyed. Critics who claim that we have all, or a majority, of the papyri possessed by Joseph Smith are simply mistaken. The Egyptian characters on the recovered documents are a portion of the "Book of Breathings," an Egyptian religious text buried with mummies that instructed the dead on how to successfully reach the afterlife. This particular Book of Breathings was written for a deceased man named Hor, so it it usually called the Hor Book of Breathings. Other than the vignette represented in Facsimile 1, the material on the papyri received by the Church, at least from a standard Egyptological point of view, does not include the actual text of the Book of Abraham."
New Era, January 1968.
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Thank you for that clarification. It's useful to know that's the official LDS stance on the translation issue.

Given your past adherence to LDS doctrine I will assume this is the explanation you accept unless you state otherwise.

The "Milk before Meat" doctrine has been mentioned several times in this thread. You are obviously accepting of the restrictions placed on you by the elders in your church in restricting you to milk on many matters. If an elder from another LDS church felt you were ready for theological meat that your immediate superiors in the church have denied you, would you accept it?

How would you handle such a disagreement between two men who outranked you in the LDS church? Would you accept the offered meat or voluntarily restrict yourself to the milk?
 
Cleon said:
Really? Which parts of those videos are faked? (I'm sincerely curious to know.)
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To be fair, Janadele didn't say that any particular video was faked. I read her answer as a clever non-answer designed to cast doubt. Her statement was literally true (I'm sure there are some fake videos online). But it was designed to fool an uncareful reader into thinking that she was saying the particular linked video was one of the faked ones, although she never actually said that.

Because she answered in such a clever way, rather than coming right out and mentioning the mistakes, I took it to be evidence that she believed the particular video was accurate. Otherwise, there would be no need to try to do damage control like that.
 
Pup said:
To be fair, Janadele didn't say that any particular video was faked. I read her answer as a clever non-answer designed to cast doubt. Her statement was literally true (I'm sure there are some fake videos online). But it was designed to fool an uncareful reader into thinking that she was saying the particular linked video was one of the faked ones, although she never actually said that.

Because she answered in such a clever way, rather than coming right out and mentioning the mistakes, I took it to be evidence that she believed the particular video was accurate. Otherwise, there would be no need to try to do damage control like that.
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I noticed that, too.
 
Pup, as you and others here also know, the LDS Church has not and will not ever release or facilitate the recording of Temple ordinances.
 
desertgal said:
... Don't endowments come after the temple recommend?
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Yes of course. A Temple Recommend is required to enter the Temple. Endowments are taken out previous to a Temple Marriage, previous to being set apart as a Missionary, or in later years if worthy.
 
Janadele said:
Idle curiousity and a closed and hostile mindset is not condusive to knowledge nor a reason to be given pearls.
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This is demonstrably not true.

Science is, at its core, a hostile mindset. It unceremoniously challenges all ideas, demanding evidence of facts to support them. In the process, it will happily eliminate bad ideas and hypotheses that fail to match with reality. Nothing is beyond this scrutiny in science, and why we continue to learn more and better understand our universe.

This process is directly responsible for advances in medicine and technology. I am much more confident that i will be cured by going to a doctor than going to a prayer circle.
 
Janadele said:
Pup, as you and others here also know, the LDS Church has not and will not ever release or facilitate the recording of Temple ordinances.
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Yes, it was a secret recording. But even if it were staged, nothing in the video is false.
 
joobz said:
Science is, at its core, a hostile mindset. It unceremoniously challenges all ideas, demanding evidence of facts to support them. In the process, it will happily eliminate bad ideas and hypotheses that fail to match with reality. Nothing is beyond this scrutiny in science, and why we continue to learn more and better understand our universe.

This process is directly responsible for advances in medicine and technology. I am much more confident that i will be cured by going to a doctor than going to a prayer circle.
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Adversarial systems are the only effective means to get at the truth.
 
If truth, is truth, it will stand adversarial examination.

If it doesn't, it wasn't truth in the first place.

Disillusionment is enlightenment.
 
A little off topic, but...........

For instance, let's take the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ.

Has anyone ever seen a virgin birth? Anyone? No, of course not. It is not reality.

However, if we move into the realm of myth/religion, we will find virgin birth plentiful. Along with Jesus, we find a wide variety of virgin/miraculous births.

It's amazing how Christians will believe in the Mary, virgin birth hook, line, and sinker, but quickly poo-poo the same such miraculous births of other religions and myths.
 
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Janadele said:
Pup, as you and others here also know, the LDS Church has not and will not ever release or facilitate the recording of Temple ordinances.
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Again, a true but irrelevant answer. No one has claimed the video was released or facilitated by the LDS Church.
 
Pup said:
Again, a true but irrelevant answer. No one has claimed the video was released or facilitated by the LDS Church.
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But, of course, no one could have taken the film, except someone who had a temple recommend and who was considered worthy to enter the temple.

In my church going/believing days, there was a story circulated about people who tried to enter the temple by force, but were stopped by the sudden appearence of Laminite warriors. (A group of fierce warriors in the BofM.)

Do you recall such a story RandFan, or Janadel?

At the time, I was willing to believe it. I no longer do.

But, if someone did believe the myth/story, how is it that the simple spirit of god couldn't detect the many people who have taken films in the temple, or why didn't the Bishop discern the intent, in the heart of the participants?
 
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deaman said:
But, of course, no one could have taken the film, except someone who had a temple recommend and who was considered worthy to enter the temple.

In my church going/believing days, there was a story circulated about people who tried to enter the temple by force, but were stopped by the sudden appearence of Laminite warriors. (A group of fierce warriors in the BofM.)

Do you recall such a story RandFan, or Janadel?
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No, but these types of stories are very common among Mormons. When I was on my mission one of my companions called them faith promoting rumors. I took a dim view of them after that.
 
RandFan said:
No, but these types of stories are very common among Mormons. When I was on my mission one of my companions called them faith promoting rumors. I took a dim view of them after that.
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Or, how about the one that Bigfoot/Sasquatch was in fact Cain, the brother and murderer of Abel. Doomed and cursed, to walk the Earth forever.
 
Janadele said:
Pup, as you and others here also know, the LDS Church has not and will not ever release or facilitate the recording of Temple ordinances.
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Well, first, as the saying goes "never say never." I'm sure Brigham Young was convinced that the church would "never" ban polygamy, much less give the Priesthood to Blacks. A little revelation goes a long way in LDS.

Second, yes, I know LDS would not release a recording. The videos linked appear to be taken secretly. Are they fake?

Several "formons" who've posted here have said that if the videos are faked, they match their recollections pretty closely. Is that the case, or are these videos complete fabrications?
 
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