When it comes to my opinion I am my own source. Janadele is making an empirical claim about what is Mormon doctrine and not simply stating an opinion.
It's called honesty. Look into it. The claim was reasonable but I'm happy to admit that I do not know.
It was not my intent to mislead. When confronted with it I corrected it. Now about those artifacts? BTW: Don't forget to call Janadele out for her dishonesty in claiming that blacks could always hold the priesthood, it was only Negros that couldn't. She has been given many opportunities to correct the record but she refuses.
What's odd is that this is a bizarre ad hominem. As if attacking me will make Mormonism true.
), if one wants.
The subject at hand was whether or not heavenly mother was Mormon doctrine. So the ad hominem would normally be to attack my position on that proposition, the proposition at hand. But he has not staked out a position on that.
But the seer stone predates the first vision. The Urim and Thummim were taken by the angel with the plates, IIRC. There was nothing particularly special about that stone. It wasn't handed down from god and, AFAIK, it has never been shown to have any magical properties.Well, I'm completely puzzled. Skyrider44 seems to be stalling at providing any evidence of existing artifacts, yet all he would need to do is point out that Jomante already provided a nice link in post #2959.
Jomante's link:
http://mormonthink.com/transbomweb.htm
The link below goes more directly to the relevant part:
http://mormonthink.com/transbomweb.htm#whereisthe
it has all kinds of good information, including:
I googled a bit more on the illustration of the stone at the top of the page, and it seems to be another seer stone that passed down through Philo Dibble (what a name that poor fellow had to live with). There's more about it, and another stone here:
http://seerstone.blogspot.com/2006/01/pictures-of-seer-stones.html
I can't vouch for the accuracy of any of that information; haven't done more than just googled around for links. But it certainly gives a lot of provenances, names, sources, etc. to dig into and look through (pun intended
Also, Mormon leaders have the magical power to figure out who has even a drop of black blood.
).
Thanks.Not sure it's that clear-cut (well, except for the last sentence; I think that's true of just about anything
From a FAIR wiki post a couple of clicks off of Jomante's link:
http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Seer_stones/"Rock_in_hat"_used_for_Book_of_Mormon_translation
The article title kinda sums it up: "Why did Joseph use the same stone for translating the Book of Mormon that he used for 'money digging'?"
Edited to add: I haven't read all the stuff in enough detail to figure out if any of the seer stones that survive are supposed to have been the same ones used at the time Smith was translating the Book of Mormon, but it does address the "vault" discussion from a few posts back and I suspect it's the kind of stuff that Skyrider was coyly hinting at.