Larry Nassar gets 175 years.....

[3point14]

It's all about how the USA is EVIL. Standard Radical Euro dogma.

Bits of the USA act pretty evilly, the privatised, for profit prison system having convicted criminals produce plug-chains for peanuts and the like.



Bit it also has NASA and the Grand canyons and some wonderfully friendly people and an awful lot varied and interesting food and culture. It does some of the most advanced scientific and technical research in the world, it's provided, I think, the whole world with the ability have a satnav and it's done a million more amazing things.

But it has, in some places, a crappy prison system that I can fairly easily define as 'evil'


There are also many, many evil things about my own country, as well as many positives. You know what, I think that's probably the same all over the world.


How about you take what I've written for what it means and not go adding on paranoid bits about how I hate your country because I've observed that some aspects of its functioning is so far below perfect it approximates evil?



Seriously, how paranoid are you that you read insult where none is intended? I think you probably need to get that chip off your shoulder and relax a little. Maybe have a cup of tea and a digestive?

 

[smartcooky]

The problem is that ,as someone stated Psychology is a inexact science.

Fact is ,some offenders can be rehabilitated and others can't. I am particularly skeptical that serial killers and others whose acts are motivated by severe mental problems can be surely "cured'.
But don't what reality interfere with "feel good" lefty dogma...

Well I sure don't want a "rehabilitated" child molester or paedophile living anywhere near my kids or grand-kids or the school they go to.... I am unashamedly a nimby when it comes to the safety of my family.

There are certain classes of criminals; murderers, child molesters & paedophiles especially, who IMO, should never be paroled or released.

Murderers because they have taken another person's life, and I see no reason why they deserve to be allowed to get on with theirs... their sentence should be as long is their victim remains dead.

Child molesters and Paedophiles because they represent a clear and present danger to the safety of any children they live near.

IMO, the actions of this type of criminal should result in them permanently forfeiting any right to freedom. If a Larry Nassar type person ended up being paroled and turned up in my neighbourhood, I would be among the first to volunteer to picket his home and put up warning posters in his street. People like him have no place being on the loose in society.

 

[smartcooky]

Apart from all that prison rape and murder you seem so keen on, of course.

And that's a great big "I don't give a ****"!

Don't want to get arse-reamed in a prison? Simple; don't commit crimes!!!

 

[Babbylonian]

How could we possibly be certain that criminals of any type are impossible to rehabilitate in the US when we allow, or even design, our prisons to be miserable hells where the strong prey on the weak? We even allow them to be turned into profit centers for private corporations which then have an incentive not to rehabilitate prisoners.

 

[theprestige]

And that's a great big "I don't give a ****"!

Don't want to get arse-reamed in a prison? Simple; don't commit crimes!!!

Prison rape isn't actually a part of our justice system, though. It's a failure of that system.

If you think justice demands that some people be anally raped for their crimes, then make your case for adding it to our justice system. And keep in mind that in order for your proposal to be justice, you must make some credible effort to ensure that rapes are only given to people who have received a legitimate sentence of rape.

The current system, where everybody gets raped regardless of their crime, and outside of any system of justice that our society has agreed to, is inhumane. You should "give a ****", because it's unjust. It harms society to tolerate this kind of thing.

 

[Belz...]

Murderers because they have taken another person's life, and I see no reason why they deserve to be allowed to get on with theirs... their sentence should be as long is their victim remains dead.

Length of the victim's death sounds like a pretty strange way to determine sentence. Besides, manslaughter, 2nd degree and 1st degree murder, and serial killing, are very different things. They should be handled differently.

Child molesters and Paedophiles

My issue with putting those together is that it assumes that pedophiles -- that is, people who have a (deviant) attraction towards prepubescent children -- not only are more at risk of acting on their attraction than, say heterosexual males are to rape women, but automatically should be lumped together with those who do.

I am, however, in favour of watching them more closely, but criminalising the attraction itself, assuming they don't act on it, is silly.

 

[Checkmite]

She may have thought that but I can't see how it can actually be the case? At the least in the UK a NDA can't prevent someone giving a statement in a criminal case.

True; but Maroney's abuse wasn't part of the criminal investigation into Nassar. Nassar's guilty plea involved children he raped in the state of Michigan. Maroney and other Olympic athletes were assaulted at the Olympic gymnastics training facility in Texas, and in other cities worldwide that hosted events.

Maroney wasn't really giving a statement to investigators in the traditional sense; Nassar hadn't been charged or pleaded guilty to assaulting her specifically and she wasn't a witness in the case that court was dealing with, which only involved seven girls he had raped in Michigan. She was invited to give a impact statement; but those statements don't have any probative function, they are voluntary and intended solely to give people impacted by a crime a final, public, uncontested word against a convicted offender. Family members, friends, and victims whose own cases were not allowed to be brought up during an actual trial for example can all choose to give statements, or not.

You are right that an NDA cannot prevent anyone from giving a sworn statement to police investigating a crime.

 

[smartcooky]

How could we possibly be certain that criminals of any type are impossible to rehabilitate ...

Don't care

in the US when we allow, or even design, our prisons to be miserable hells where the strong prey on the weak? We even allow them to be turned into profit centers for private corporations which then have an incentive not to rehabilitate prisoners.

Well, I object to private prisons anyway. Prisons should be government run. In any case, that has nothing to do with sentencing, the private prisons don't control that, the courts do.

If there is a problem with the prison system...fix it!

 

[Belz...]

Don't care

May I take this as an indication that you don't care about rehabilitation in the first place?

ETA: Personally, I'd find it a better solution to crime if we could do it reliably. It would also save on tax dollars, etc. There's basically no downside to rehabilitation where it works.

 

[theprestige]

Don't want to get arse-reamed in a prison? Simple; don't commit crimes!!!

You seem to be arguing that every crime should carry a sentence of rape. Which, okay, is kind of draconian, but if that's your idea of justice... But why would you be at all happy with the current system, which leaves sentencing entirely up to unsupervised criminals? That doesn't seem like any kind of justice to me. Seems more like a psychosexual revenge fantasy to me.

 

[Checkmite]

Rape is bad, people. It is never "justice". No matter where it happens.

 

[smartcooky]

Prison rape isn't actually a part of our justice system, though. It's a failure of that system.

Then fix the bloody system

If you think justice demands that some people be anally raped for their crimes, then make your case for adding it to our justice system. And keep in mind that in order for your proposal to be justice, you must make some credible effort to ensure that rapes are only given to people who have received a legitimate sentence of rape.

You seem to be arguing that every crime should carry a sentence of rape. Which, okay, is kind of draconian, but if that's your idea of justice... But why would you be at all happy with the current system, which leaves sentencing entirely up to unsupervised criminals? That doesn't seem like any kind of justice to me. Seems more like a psychosexual revenge fantasy to me.

No, I'm not advocating anal rape in prisons, I just don't care about whether it happens or not. If it can be stopped, well and good, but I don't care either way; I really don't.. Its like the Superbowl next weekend. I don't care if the Patriots lose. I don't specifically want them to lose, but I don't care either way. I won't lose any sleep over it.

Its easy to avoid being anally raped in a prison... don't put yourself in a position that will put you in that danger... like, if you don't want to fall off a cliff, don't go near cliffs...its really that simple.

 

[Thermal]

Fun fact: some of us have been locked up for things we didn't do. It happens, and with fair frequency. Do we deserve these punitive add-ons?

 

[Babbylonian]

Fun fact: some of us have been locked up for things we didn't do. It happens, and with fair frequency. Do we deserve these punitive add-ons?

They shouldn't have put themselves in a position to be wrongly convicted.

 

[theprestige]

No, I'm not advocating anal rape in prisons, I just don't care about whether it happens or not. If it can be stopped, well and good, but I don't care either way; I really don't..

It seems you really do care, though. Here you are advocating anal rape in prisons:

No matter how long this disgusting individual gets in terms of years, nothing is going to be as painful for him as the butt-reaming he is in for from some of the other inmates... at least, I hope this is the case.

And here you are defending prison rape as the appropriate treatment for people like him:

Probably not. I'm a dad who has had kids in sport (and grand-kids in sport too). I guess I'm just venting how I feel about this piece of garbage. IMO, he doesn't deserve to be treated as a human

The way you put it gives the distinct impression that you actually care a lot about this. From this and other posts you've made on the subject, I conclude that you don't care very much that the system is broken, because you actually care very much that certain people get treated as subhuman trash, and you don't care how many other people get hurt in the process of getting you what you care about the most.

 

[smartcooky]

Length of the victim's death sounds like a pretty strange way to determine sentence.

It was somewhat tongue in cheek

Besides, manslaughter, 2nd degree and 1st degree murder, and serial killing, are very different things. They should be handled differently.

When I say "murderer" of course, I am referring to someone who wilfully commits premeditated murder... who plans and carries out the murder.

I'm prepared accept that someone who kills as a result of, say, a punch in a bar fight, or an accidental shooting, deserves to be treated more leniently.

My issue with putting those together is that it assumes that pedophiles -- that is, people who have a (deviant) attraction towards prepubescent children -- not only are more at risk of acting on their attraction than, say heterosexual males are to rape women, but automatically should be lumped together with those who do.

I am, however, in favour of watching them more closely, but criminalising the attraction itself, assuming they don't act on it, is silly.

My bad for conflating the two... I should have known better.

May I take this as an indication that you don't care about rehabilitation in the first place?

I care more about the safety of the public, than I care about the well being of criminals.

As I said in my earlier post.. safety the public is my first priority, suitable punishment of the offender is the second priority, and rehabilitation is the last thing on the list. There are lots of classes of criminals where I favour rehabilitation... thieves, burglars, white collar criminals etc,

ETA: Personally, I'd find it a better solution to crime if we could do it reliably. It would also save on tax dollars, etc. There's basically no downside to rehabilitation where it works.

But we cannot do it reliably. Much as I am loathe to bring other countries into this, even Sweden, the country with the most successful prison rehab system, can only give you a 50/50 on whether a released or paroled prisoner will re-offend. Not good enough IMO

Until we can see a system where the re-offending rate is so low that a released/paroled prisoner is no more likely to commit a crime that another other member of the public, then the system cannot be classed as successful.

 

[3point14]

The way you put it gives the distinct impression that you actually care a lot about this. From this and other posts you've made on the subject, I conclude that you don't care very much that the system is broken, because you actually care very much that certain people get treated as subhuman trash, and you don't care how many other people get hurt in the process of getting you what you care about the most.

This. A million times this.

 

[smartcooky]

Fun fact: some of us have been locked up for things we didn't do. It happens, and with fair frequency. Do we deserve these punitive add-ons?

Wrongful convictions are irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Thermal]

I've read estimates as high as 40% of convicted child molesters who were later found to be not guilty. You can't really root for or be indifferent to a cruel and unusual punishment hard-wired into a heavily flawed system

 

[smartcooky]

It seems you really do care, though. Here you are advocating anal rape in prisons:

Nope, I donlt care

IAnd here you are defending prison rape as the appropriate treatment for people like him:

Nope, I am advocating nothing. I don't care

IThe way you put it gives the distinct impression that you actually care a lot about this. From this and other posts you've made on the subject, I conclude that you don't care very much that the system is broken, because you actually care very much that certain people get treated as subhuman trash, and you don't care how many other people get hurt in the process of getting you what you care about the most.

Nope, I don't care.

I do not lose a moment's sleep feeling sorry for child molesters and what they might face in prison. I reserve my thoughts and sympathies for the victims of the subhuman trash (your words, not mine).