This cannot be the case as I am a shotgun owner and I did not vote Tory at the recent election. What is your point with these figures?
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Killer on the rampage across Cumbria
- Thread starter Undesired Walrus
- Start date
This cannot be the case as I am a shotgun owner and I did not vote Tory at the recent election. What is your point with these figures?
richardm
Philosopher
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Sapristi, you're right! I too am a shotgun owner, did not vote Tory and am penniless to boot. Perhaps he left out the error bars.
Ivor the Engineer
Penultimate Amazing
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Great, isn't? Until my mother's severely mentally ill neighbour threatens her own safety or someone else's she can go on making everyone else's life a misery.
She's also been struck off the surgery list for being aggressive to staff. So she's just left to carry on sinking down in the abyss until she finally snaps. Hopefully my mother will have moved house before that happens.
"Care" in the community - what a brilliant idea!
richardm
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Aye terrific
I suppose in principle there's not much wrong with care in the community, it's just that the care bit seems to have been forgotten as people were tossed back
Lothian
should be banned
I am attempting to reinforce the stereotype that all shotgun owners are Tories.
or making a joke about it.
Undesired Walrus
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I honestly didn't even know that you could own a shotgun in the UK. Must be the ignorant urbanite I am.
Where can they be legally owned?
Where can they be legally owned?
ZirconBlue
Sole Survivor of L-Town
Perhaps an ordinance prohibiting "driving
I don't see how that would have made any difference in this particular case. He wasn't in one crowded place shooting a bunch of people at once. He was driving around and picking off a couple at a time. So, a high rate of fire and/or large ammo capacity don't really seem like they would impact the situation much.In fact, hitting a target is generally easier with a shotgun, so he may have actually ended up killing fewer people with a semi-automatic.
Ivor the Engineer
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IIRC, any adult except those with certain types of criminal convictions can own a shotgun anywhere in the UK if they have a reason to own one. Valid reasons include clay pigeon shooting and killing various types of animals for fun. Guns should be kept in a secure metal box bolted to the floor or wall and the ammo kept seperately.
Ivor the Engineer
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Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
Meanwhile, predicatably:
www.911forum.org.uk
"People are drawing a line with Hungerford, but it strikes me that there may be a parallel with the Beltway killing spree, a more occult ritual type of affair."
"10 odd turks were killed the day before and not a single condemnation from the government. This event is covered up by the latest event. Is there a connection?"
"As we all know by now, any case like this of "a lone gunman" shouldn't be immediately taken at face value."
"2.6.2010 is 9 months and 11 days before the next anniversary of Dunblane."
You couldn't make it up....
www.911forum.org.uk
"People are drawing a line with Hungerford, but it strikes me that there may be a parallel with the Beltway killing spree, a more occult ritual type of affair."
"10 odd turks were killed the day before and not a single condemnation from the government. This event is covered up by the latest event. Is there a connection?"
"As we all know by now, any case like this of "a lone gunman" shouldn't be immediately taken at face value."
"2.6.2010 is 9 months and 11 days before the next anniversary of Dunblane."
You couldn't make it up....
Thanks for the extra details; pretty much what I said, I think. I suspect I'm rare in the UK, I've actually fired a pistol, a rifle and a shotgun, and my sister and brother-in-law used to shoot handguns. The closest most people are likely to get to a gun is to an armed policeman at the airport or a military parade.
I saw on the news today that it was confirmed that the weapons used were legally held, and I also caught a bit of the statement from the minister responsible which sounded as though they were not about to introduce any hasty legislation.
Ivor the Engineer
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That one in particular made me laugh out loud.
It's all connected, don't you see??????!!!!!
Rat
Not bored. Never bored.,
That was indeed the one that made me laugh, and I almost went to check out whether it was even true, but then it occurred to me that it really wouldn't matter. It would have counted equally if it were 11 months and 9 days (American dates, you see) before, or if it were 11/9 or 9/11 after. Or if the months/days became weeks/days. Or days/hours. Or if he'd killed 9 and wounded 11, or vice versa, usw.
Ivor the Engineer
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I've just read your post and the time on my PC clock is 09:11. Spooky.
ETA: Dunblane was on 13th March 1996 and 1+9+9+6 = 25 - the number of victims of this shooting.
12 people were shot and killed. 12 disciples of Jesus + Jesus = 13.
The clues were staring us in the face and yet the police did nothing to stop it from happening.
Last edited:
richardm
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They also check your medical history to make sure you're not a homicidal maniac or prone to suicidal tendencies, or anything like that.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Bird seems to have had the firearms licence for a very long time, and nobody even seems to know what the original purpose of the guns was. They're now talking about periodic re-checks to make sure you haven't developed homicidal or suicidal tendencies since acquiring the guns.
Rolfe.
Rolfe
Adult human female
I didn't even catch what that meant until I read your reply. My brain just read [totally random time period since Dunblane] or something like that.
Dunblane was 13th March 1996, so yes, it would be 9 calendar months plus 11 days until 13th March 2011. Wow, I see it all now!
Except that round here, the Twin Towers happened on 11/9.
Rolfe.
Sadly I think those that are hoping for a rational narrative to emerge are barking up the wrong tree, his actions were irrational (within the usual norms of our society) so looking for a rational reason for his action isn't going to help us understand the why, if indeed there was a why.
Rolfe
Adult human female
Comparisons are being made with Hungerford and (less exactly) with Dunblane. Yes, there have been long intervals between these cases, which has to be good.
Given that availability of firearms seems to be a factor in these incidents (all three perpetrators held their weapons legally), there's a fair case to be made that the firearms restrictions have prevented more examples. We do see more examples in countries with higher proportions of gun ownership.
Which makes me wonder, where are the comparable incidents which simply don't involve guns? There was a machete attack on a school which could have been Dunblane all over again, but because there was no gun, none of the injuries was fatal. There's always been a bit of a question mark over the Moorgate tube disaster. What about the man who parked his car on a level crossing and sat in it to wait for the oncoming train (which derailed, and I think there were passenger fatalities).
I'm certainly not disputing the proposal that when guns are few and far between, the body count is usually a lot less (if any). But I suspect this sort of rampage is a subset of the suicide who intends to take as many people as possible with him. And here, where guns are scarce, we may have quite a variety of other expressions of the same impulse, which could reasonably be classed as essentially the same thing.
Which leads on to the question of, when did this start? Nobody can think of a gun rampage in Britain before Hungerford, even though guns were relatively easy to come by. (Moorgate was 1975, though....) Is it copycat, or is there a degree of pressure present in society that is a relatively recent phenomenon?
Rolfe.
Given that availability of firearms seems to be a factor in these incidents (all three perpetrators held their weapons legally), there's a fair case to be made that the firearms restrictions have prevented more examples. We do see more examples in countries with higher proportions of gun ownership.
Which makes me wonder, where are the comparable incidents which simply don't involve guns? There was a machete attack on a school which could have been Dunblane all over again, but because there was no gun, none of the injuries was fatal. There's always been a bit of a question mark over the Moorgate tube disaster. What about the man who parked his car on a level crossing and sat in it to wait for the oncoming train (which derailed, and I think there were passenger fatalities).
I'm certainly not disputing the proposal that when guns are few and far between, the body count is usually a lot less (if any). But I suspect this sort of rampage is a subset of the suicide who intends to take as many people as possible with him. And here, where guns are scarce, we may have quite a variety of other expressions of the same impulse, which could reasonably be classed as essentially the same thing.
Which leads on to the question of, when did this start? Nobody can think of a gun rampage in Britain before Hungerford, even though guns were relatively easy to come by. (Moorgate was 1975, though....) Is it copycat, or is there a degree of pressure present in society that is a relatively recent phenomenon?
Rolfe.
Ethan Thane Athen
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I was brought up with guns (my Dad was a firearms dealer in his spare time) and have shot pretty much every type but (bizarrely considering their prevalence) not a shotgun. My Dad detested shotguns on the grounds that 'Any idiot can hit a target with one of those' - he wasn't absolutely correct (there is a skill to shotgun shooting) but I tend to agree with his basic sentiment / preference.
But yes, I'm just another exception to the general rule.
Peoples attitudes to guns in the UK is quite interesting. I know one of the senior managers in my office has several guns but he doesn't like to talk about it as he claims people react very badly when they find out and seem to instantly assume he's some sort of nutter.