Killer on the rampage across Cumbria

[Rolfe]

When I saw it was a shotgun, and the amount of casualties, my first thought was "while he was reloading, why didn't some guy run up and beat the crap out of him?"

But it seems he was driving around as he was shooting people, hard to stop unless you're Arnie and can punch through windshields.

Yes, it was the vehicle that made it such carnage. He shot a couple of people, then drove off, only to reappear somewhere down the road and do it again.

Rolfe.

 

[Lothian]

Farmers and such may have a license for a shotgun, because they use them to control pests.

Pretty much anyone can own a shot gun in the UK.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

Pretty much anyone can own a shot gun in the UK.

Well, we have a lot of pests.

ASBO's just won't cut it.

 

[zooterkin]

TV now saying that guns are quite common in the village where Bird lived, because shooting was a popular sport. Bird had a clean record and held guns legally. (They just said there are about 1.3 million shotguns in the country, but I don't know which country - England or Britain.)

He seems to have undergone a marked personality change in the past few days. Something seems to have happened. Rumours about an argument about a will. It may be something snapped in an apparently normal guy, who just happened to be one of the small minority who have legal guns.

Rolfe.

The Guardian is reporting that he inherited some guns when his father died, but doesn't say how recently that was.

 

[Lothian]

The Guardian is reporting that he inherited some guns when his father died, but doesn't say how recently that was.

That is a big surprise. I would have expected the guardian to report that he inherited some gnus when his father died.

 

[James Fox]

It may be something snapped in an apparently normal guy,...
Rolfe.

His history will be interesting when it becomes public me thinks. Snapping rarely happens in my clinical experience, usually there’s a slow crawl toward a dramatic peak of dysfunction, unless drugs or a head injury are involved.

 

[geni]

Aparently a shotgun plus a .22 rifle fitted with a telescopic sight. Fits with descriptions.

 

[geni]

His history will be interesting when it becomes public me thinks. Snapping rarely happens in my clinical experience, usually there’s a slow crawl toward a dramatic peak of dysfunction, unless drugs or a head injury are involved.

Well if you are prepared to belive the daily mail it appears to have been a dispute over stolen fairs. However they are also reporting that he started by shooting his twin brother followed by his solicitor:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...driver-Derrick-Birds-victim-twin-brother.html

 

[Rolfe]

It may be some time before we can sift what actually happened from stuff some journalist thought he heard and filed in order to make his deadline, I think

Rolfe.

 

[richardm]

So when you hear of a shooting in Britain, odds are it was a stolen shotgun or a pistol brought in illegally via France.

True up to a point, although most of the notable multiple murders done with guns and especially the three major shooting sprees that have happened in the UK in the last 20 years or so have all been done with legally held weapons. The first major case led to a ban on semi-automatic rifles, and the second led to a ban on handguns.

I'd like to think that this third event won't lead to a ban on shotguns and rifles; they're very widely held and used safely, and they also have obvious practical applications that go beyond "they are fun to have". We shall see, I suppose. Governments are capable of all sorts of nonsense when the press start shoving.

 

[Fiona]

It may be some time before we can sift what actually happened from stuff some journalist thought he heard and filed in order to make his deadline, I think

Rolfe.

Indeed. Accounts in the papers variously report that this was triggered by a dispute over a family will; an argument with other taxi drivers; and there are other reports I cannot remember so well

 

[Rolfe]

There was a talking head on TV this evening pointing out that the reflex responses to the earlier incidents were really efforts to stop the same thing happening again. Which is irrational, because you can't legislate for the individual lunatic. The next lunatic will be a different lunatic. It has also resulted in piecemeal and inconsistent legislation.

I don't know if we can trust the government to rationalise and streamline the legislation in a way that really works. We may just have to hope.

Rolfe.

 

[Fiona]

I think it is perfectly possible they government will do nothing: the must realise that you cannot legislate lunatics out of existence eventualy, surely? What we have at present seems to work pretty well.

 

[geni]

There was a talking head on TV this evening pointing out that the reflex responses to the earlier incidents were really efforts to stop the same thing happening again. Which is irrational, because you can't legislate for the individual lunatic. The next lunatic will be a different lunatic.

Yes and no.If you look at the school shooting trend in the US it appears that lunatics to an extent take their cue from previous lunatics.

It has also resulted in piecemeal and inconsistent legislation.

I don't know if we can trust the government to rationalise and streamline the legislation in a way that really works. We may just have to hope.

Rolfe.

With the level of overlap between tory voters and shotgun ownership I'm not sure there is much that is likely to happen in terms of gun ownership restriction.

 

[geni]

I think it is perfectly possible they government will do nothing: the must realise that you cannot legislate lunatics out of existence eventualy, surely? What we have at present seems to work pretty well.

They have a number of options. The shear load this is placing on the Cumbrian Constabulary may mean the old merging police forces idea gets dug out.

 

[Jekyll's Guest]

I'd like to think that this third event won't lead to a ban on shotguns and rifles; they're very widely held and used safely, and they also have obvious practical applications that go beyond "they are fun to have".

But we don't have a constitution to uphold...

 

[lionking]

The first major case led to a ban on semi-automatic rifles, and the second led to a ban on handguns.

And thank goodness for that. Imagine the carnage if that lunatic had access to a semi-automatic? Since semi-automatics and handguns were banned in Australia (after Port Arthur) there have been no multiple killings of more than two people IIRC. Pure coincidence, some would say.

 

[zooterkin]

And thank goodness for that. Imagine the carnage if that lunatic had access to a semi-automatic? Since semi-automatics and handguns were banned in Australia (after Port Arthur) there have been no multiple killings of more than two people IIRC. Pure coincidence, some would say.

How many were there before Port Arthur?

 

[lionking]

Quite a few - I'll get details and post them. There were the Hoddle Street killings, the Queen Street killings, both in Melbourne and the Miranda Fair (?) one in Sydney, all in a few years. But it was the sheer magnitude of Port Arthur, still the world's worst firearm homicide, which alone justified the ban.

 

[lionking]

Hoddle St - 7 dead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_Knight

Queen St - 9 dead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Street_massacre

Strathfield (not Miranda Fair, even spelt incorrectly) - 8 dead.

The big one Port Arthur - 35 dead:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Arthur_massacre_(Australia)

banning semi-automatics and other restrictions to firearms was one of Australia's best decisions in recent years.

Sorry for the derail.