Kid gets suspended after standing up to bully

[Ethan Thane Athen]

You could always read the whole thread and the links therein if you want to know the "full[er] story." Or, you could mount up on your high horse, kick it with the ole spurs, and try really hard to make people feel bad despite the fact that I don't recall a single post here glorying in the idea that a small child may have been (but wasn't) "badly injured."

At worst, I've seen an attitude that a kid attacking another kid takes his chances, and if he gets hurt then that's one way he might learn a lesson.

I've read most but not all the thread. GeeMack seems to be unbothered that a kid may have ended up crippled or dead - see his response above.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

And...?



Did they punch you in the face and stomach on a regular basis?

Why do you think you weren't scarred for life? You remember the incidents whereas the bullies don't remember anything of them. Scarring is a reminder of an injury. Obviously you are reminded while they are not.

I remember many events from my childhood. I thought that was normal and didn't count as being 'scarred for life'. As a child the events were frightening and humiliating. As an adult I can see I was, at most, in danger of a bloody nose and a few bruises but that most of the incidents were about humiliation and control or even having a laugh at someone else's expense.

 

[Babbylonian]

I've read most but not all the thread. GeeMack seems to be unbothered that a kid may have ended up crippled or dead - see his response above.

It appears to be a version of what I said: Initiating violence is inherently dangerous.

In short, I think you're reading things into people's posts that they're not putting in there. Most would probably agree that if an attacker can be subdued without permanent damage, that's ideal. Unfortunately, when you're dealing with a fight between untrained people, a lack of control can be an issue (as it was the one time I put a hurt on an unprovoked attacker).

 

[Rasmus]

I didn't say it had, but that could easily have been the result. Also, wasn't there a report that the kid had a fractured kneecap? I'd say that was pretty serious if true.

Yes, it's a nasty injury.

So?

Look I can accept a certain 'Oh goody, a bully got his just deserts' but some of the wallowing in this is pretty distasteful and some posters have suggested they wouldn't have been bothered if the kid was crippled or killed

And where did that happen?

Saying that it would still have been justified self-defense isn't the same as saying it wouldn't have bothered me. It would have bothered me to the extend that I'd always prefer a different outcome. But then I would also want for the bully not to be a bully and punch other people in the face. And I want a pony.

which is pretty sick in my opinion when all we can see is he threw a few ineffectual punches at a much bigger kid.

I saw a first punch that was enough to make the bigger kid's head swing back. Seems fairly effective to me.

But please, do explain to me how hard I should be allowed to hit you before you thought it was justifiable for you to defend yourself! Assume you have know idea if I'm about to stop, if I ever plan on stopping, or if I'd ask a couple of friends to join in the fun, or if I might at any time start to hit you more effectively. Oh yes: If you make a single misjudgment chances are you're gonna get hurt badly.

We really don't know the backstory here.

No need to.

I've only ever started one fight in my life (even then I didn't really throw the first punch but I pretty much caused it) when I got into an argument with an unpopular kid and got egged on by my peers to take it further. I'm ashamed to say I did (probably the only time I've ever succumbed to peer pressure). Had someone videoed just that moment it wouldn't have looked dis-similar to this - except the bigger kid just punched me back and then wrestled me to the ground until I 'gave in'.

Lucky you.

Would I have deserved to get crippled if he had picked me up and thrown me instead?

Self-defense is not at all about what the attacker "deserves". It has nothing top do with punishment or retribution.

I'd like to think not, especially as he was as much responsible for the argument and reciprocal name-calling that led to the fight.

Yeah. Poor bully. Go cry me a river.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

I guess from the tone of the thread I should have expected the responses I'm getting and that most of you wouldn't have bothered taking in the fact that I said I didn't blame the victim. I was just disturbed at the potential for damage in the response and empathetically put one of my own kids in the frame. Seeing any young kid injured or potentially injured is a disturbing sight is it not? I thought the video was horrible, from both aspects and was surprised most others did not.

 

[Rasmus]

I've read most but not all the thread. GeeMack seems to be unbothered that a kid may have ended up crippled or dead - see his response above.

The one I saw made the very sensible suggestion that if a person didn't want to be cripled or killed they shouldn't go around attacking other people that might chose to defend themselves.

He doesn't say a word about being bothered or not.

 

[Babbylonian]

I guess from the tone of the thread I should have expected the responses I'm getting and that most of you wouldn't have bothered taking in the fact that I said I didn't blame the victim. I was just disturbed at the potential for damage in the response and empathetically put one of my own kids in the frame. Seeing any young kid injured or potentially injured is a disturbing sight is it not? I thought the video was horrible, from both aspects and was surprised most others did not.

And you should recognize that if one of your own kids goes out and attacks and taunts another child, someone, somewhere along the line, has failed with him/her.

Most of the times I was bullied/beaten up were before high school. If a kid reaches the 7th or 8th grade and is still acting that violent, there's something badly wrong going on there. I'm not saying that there won't be fights, but bullying in the fashion of this video has nothing to do with 2 kids having a disagreement; it's a serious social disorder. The fact that the victim of such a maladjusted individual can be punished for it is naturally going to irritate some people (like me).

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

I saw a first punch that was enough to make the bigger kid's head swing back. Seems fairly effective to me.

And to me it looked as much like him pulling his head back out of the way...

But please, do explain to me how hard I should be allowed to hit you before you thought it was justifiable for you to defend yourself! Assume you have know idea if I'm about to stop, if I ever plan on stopping, or if I'd ask a couple of friends to join in the fun, or if I might at any time start to hit you more effectively. Oh yes: If you make a single misjudgment chances are you're gonna get hurt badly.

Please show me where I blamed the victim. Please show me where I said he couldn't defend himself. I merely expressed disquiet at the whole sordid thing and was surprised other people seemd to think it was some enjoyable come uppance.

Yeah. Poor bully. Go cry me a river.

As I said, I didn't actually throw the first punch, it was pushes and shoves from each side that escalated. I'm ashamed I allowed the situation to develop when I could have walked away and was using the example to illustrate that a kid getting into a fight does not automatically mean either one is a bad kid. We became friends very soon afterwards and remained so throughout our school years.

 

[Rasmus]

I guess from the tone of the thread I should have expected the responses I'm getting and that most of you wouldn't have bothered taking in the fact that I said I didn't blame the victim.

If you are not blaming the victim then what is your problem?

I was just disturbed at the potential for damage in the response

Funny that you should say that. Where is the part about your being disturbed that some little freak can walk around and just punch other people in the face out of the blue?

and empathetically put one of my own kids in the frame.

On which side did you put your kid?

Seeing any young kid injured or potentially injured is a disturbing sight is it not?

Yes, I was shocked to see a little kid walking up to a person and punching them right in the face.

I thought the video was horrible, from both aspects and was surprised most others did not.

I am shocked at the bullying. I am not in the least shocked to see that someone chose a reasonable and legal way of defending themselves against the attack.

And if you don't want to see your own child being treated that way there's a very simple thing for you to do: Proper parenting. If you'd fail at that, maybe you should consider institutionalizing your little darling. If you didn't do that, either, you'd only have yourself to blame if one day your kid messes with the wrong person.

Did I like what I saw? No.
Do I like not having a pony? No. And yet, I am not whining about that on the internet, either.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

You could always read the whole thread and the links therein if you want to know the "full[er] story." Or, you could mount up on your high horse, kick it with the ole spurs, and try really hard to make people feel bad despite the fact that I don't recall a single post here glorying in the idea that a small child may have been (but wasn't) "badly injured."
.....

I only went through the first two pages and got:

Little **** got what he deserved, good for the big kid...

If you physically attack someone, you deserve what you get. If you pick on someone bigger than you - you're so stupid you really deserve what you get, which should be a Darwin Award...

That little kid will never touch that big kid again. Ever. And if his knee is all screwed up now, so much the better. Let him learn now that actions have consequences....

If he'd been killed or crippled for life, I'd just call that evolution in action.
Yay for him, tough **** for the bully. That was self-defense as clear as it gets, and if the little creep ends up crippled or dead: Too bad. Should have been less of a stupid jerk....

What it would be is manslaughter.
Bovine excrement. What it would be is hilarious....

QED

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

If you are not blaming the victim then what is your problem?.

That people were glorying in the potential for serious injury to a kid.

Funny that you should say that. Where is the part about your being disturbed that some little freak can walk around and just punch other people in the face out of the blue?

I've said I was disturbed by both aspects of the video. To make that clear I mean: the bullying; and the potential injury to the bully (but not that the victim retaliated).

On which side did you put your kid?

Both. Victim initially and then at the moment of retaliation, in the place of the bully - although not actually as the bully, emotion took it out of context and I just saw my kid being slammed to the ground.

Yes, I was shocked to see a little kid walking up to a person and punching them right in the face.

Me too.

I am shocked at the bullying. I am not in the least shocked to see that someone chose a reasonable and legal way of defending themselves against the attack.

Me neither. But I was shocked at the way it was done - not in a blaming the victim sense just in a 'Oh boy, that could be really nasty' sense.

And if you don't want to see your own child being treated that way there's a very simple thing for you to do: Proper parenting. If you'd fail at that, maybe you should consider institutionalizing your little darling. If you didn't do that, either, you'd only have yourself to blame if one day your kid messes with the wrong person.

I've got four 'little darlings', they seem to be pretty well adjusted but all kids may find themselves in a fight situation. As I say, my emotional response to the 'final act' took it out of the context of what led to it - I just saw a child getting hurt and what could have potentially been even more serious.

Did I like what I saw? No.
Do I like not having a pony? No. And yet, I am not whining about that on the internet, either.

Didn't think I was whining. Thought I was passing comment.

 

[qayak]

We really don't know the backstory here. I've only ever started one fight in my life (even then I didn't really throw the first punch but I pretty much caused it) when I got into an argument with an unpopular kid and got egged on by my peers to take it further. I'm ashamed to say I did (probably the only time I've ever succumbed to peer pressure). Had someone videoed just that moment it wouldn't have looked dis-similar to this - except the bigger kid just punched me back and then wrestled me to the ground until I 'gave in'. Would I have deserved to get crippled if he had picked me up and thrown me instead? I'd like to think not, especially as he was as much responsible for the argument and reciprocal name-calling that led to the fight.

So, this kid did wrong in defending himself because back in the day you assaulted someone because of what you say was peer pressure.

My view is a little different. You got lucky, this kid did too but not quite as lucky as you.

 

[qayak]

I've got four 'little darlings', they seem to be pretty well adjusted but all kids may find themselves in a fight situation. As I say, my emotional response to the 'final act' took it out of the context of what led to it - I just saw a child getting hurt and what could have potentially been even more serious.

Why didn't you see the larger kid getting punched and think of that as "being hurt?" That's what I saw. I saw a kid who wanted to be left alone being punched repeatedly, and not allowed to leave the area. That's the kid my heart goes out to, not the other one who gambled and lost.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

So, this kid did wrong in defending himself because back in the day you assaulted someone because of what you say was peer pressure.

My view is a little different. You got lucky, this kid did too but not quite as lucky as you.

I got into a fight. Didn't even throw the first punch but could have avoided the whole thing. The point I was trying to make, and obviously failing, is that we can't tell the whole story from the video or what the victim's parents say and yet right from the first page people are effectively saying, 'Serves the creep right if he ends up crippled or dead, he shouldn't start a fight'. I agree he shouldn't start a fight but I'm surprised people think ending up crippled or dead is a reasonable result for starting a playground fight.

I have repeatedly stated that I don't blame the victim for defending himself. I don't blame him for the actual action he took either - at least not in the heat of the moment. That is pretty clear in my posts but you are all determined not to see it. I am disturbed at the result that action could have had and surprised others are not.

Hopefully that makes my position clear.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Why didn't you see the larger kid getting punched and think of that as "being hurt?" That's what I saw. I saw a kid who wanted to be left alone being punched repeatedly, and not allowed to leave the area. That's the kid my heart goes out to, not the other one who gambled and lost.

I did. As I have made clear in my posts above. Perhaps you have not read those ones yet in your eagerness to paint me as someone who is sticking up for the bully.

 

[qayak]

I got into a fight. Didn't even throw the first punch but could have avoided the whole thing. The point I was trying to make, and obviously failing, is that we can't tell the whole story from the video or what the victim's parents say and yet right from the first page people are effectively saying, 'Serves the creep right if he ends up crippled or dead, he shouldn't start a fight'. I agree he shouldn't start a fight but I'm surprised people think ending up crippled or dead is a reasonable result for starting a playground fight.

I have repeatedly stated that I don't blame the victim for defending himself. I don't blame him for the actual action he took either - at least not in the heat of the moment. That is pretty clear in my posts but you are all determined not to see it. I am disturbed at the result that action could have had and surprised others are not.

Hopefully that makes my position clear.

This wasn't a playground fight. This was a calculated attack on an unwilling opponent. The attacker got what they deserved and are just lucky it wasn't worse.

There is nothing wrong with being disturbed by violence. After all, it's violence and it's supposed to be disturbing. However, you seem to have a problem distinguishing between unprovoked, unjustified violence and provoked and justified self defence. That's the issue I have with your posts.

 

[dirtywick]

I think some are overstating the potential effect of a body slam. The human body isn't nearly as frail as some of us apparently think it is; I don't know why either, as the kid in the video ended up neither crippled or dead. In fact, the only thing hurt was his pride.

 

[fuelair]

Right, but we are of course talking about children that need to learn how to deal with such situations, not be encouraged to fly off the handle and potentially cripple others.

Some children (people) are natural berserkers - they may know what you wish them to but it will make no difference in the proper circumstance.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The kid should have used his years of Brazillian Jujitsu training to subdue the guy and make him "say uncle." Oh wait.....

 

[HistoryGal]

I only went through the first two pages and got:

Little **** got what he deserved, good for the big kid...

If you physically attack someone, you deserve what you get. If you pick on someone bigger than you - you're so stupid you really deserve what you get, which should be a Darwin Award...

That little kid will never touch that big kid again. Ever. And if his knee is all screwed up now, so much the better. Let him learn now that actions have consequences....

If he'd been killed or crippled for life, I'd just call that evolution in action.
Yay for him, tough **** for the bully. That was self-defense as clear as it gets, and if the little creep ends up crippled or dead: Too bad. Should have been less of a stupid jerk....

What it would be is manslaughter.
Bovine excrement. What it would be is hilarious....

QED

(Emphasis added.)

If you're going to quote me, make the proper attribution.

Thank you.