Kevin Trudeau on 20/20

[Vagabond]

Did you mean defection, or deflection? Or is this like in Moscow on the Hudson? (Russian: "I'm defecting" Cashier: "Down the hall, third door on the left"I guess I still don't understand the example. You found a discrepancy between what your vet told you versus some information on a website?

Yeah, I meant deflection. I was just funnin anyway. No the vets in years past used to tell me that heartworms were only caught by stepping in the feces of another dog that has them. I never bothered to give my dogs heartworm preventative because they never left the yard. I figured the cost of the preventative which isn't cheap wasn't justified for the nearly non-existant risk. Now they say it's mosquito borne which I believe is an effort to make it look like the risk is much higher so more people will pay for the preventative.

I am not a vet but I have a hard time accepting they can even KNOW that something is mosquito borne or not and even if it is this doesn't necessary make the risk any higher. It's an effort to make people THINK it's higher because everybody gets bitten by mosquitos and they are abundant. But 99.9999999999 percent of them are harmless. Also mosquitos don't fly around biting people till they get their fill. They fill up on one person, they don't bite anybody else, they are done. Only ones that were swatted away and not killed would bite another. Which is also a small number.

 

[blutoski]

Yeah, I meant deflection. I was just funnin anyway. No the vets in years past used to tell me that heartworms were only caught by stepping in the feces of another dog that has them. I never bothered to give my dogs heartworm preventative because they never left the yard. I figured the cost of the preventative which isn't cheap wasn't justified for the nearly non-existant risk. Now they say it's mosquito borne which I believe is an effort to make it look like the risk is much higher so more people will pay for the preventative.

I am not a vet but I have a hard time accepting they can even KNOW that something is mosquito borne or not and even if it is this doesn't necessary make the risk any higher. It's an effort to make people THINK it's higher because everybody gets bitten by mosquitos and they are abundant. But 99.9999999999 percent of them are harmless. Also mosquitos don't fly around biting people till they get their fill. They fill up on one person, they don't bite anybody else, they are done. Only ones that were swatted away and not killed would bite another. Which is also a small number.

I wonder if there was a misunderstanding. Are you possibly conflating intestinal worms (Platyhelminthes) which are absolutely transmitted via feces with heartworms (Nematodae) which are transmitted via arthropod (in this case, a mosquito) vector?

Secondly, in the case of the mosquito vector for parasites: these parasites also infect the mosquito and other animals act as reservoirs. In a naiive region, most will be harmless, but that changes within a couple of generations. Many mosquitos will feed on one animal, and one of them is bound to be infected. All the animals in a region can become infected quickly, and then 100% of the mosquitos from then on will be carriers.

Consider: the first female mosquito gets infected during a blood meal, but all the offspring will be infected, and they infect their blood-meal donors, which infect other female mosquitos, and so on.

Observe malaria. It takes only a few weeks for one infected animal to cause 100% of mosquitos in the region to become vectors.

Also be mindful that parasites can live in reservoir species. Humans are reservoir species for dog heartworm, as are cats, squirrels, raccoons... long list.

 

[Vagabond]

I wonder if there was a misunderstanding. Are you possibly conflating intestinal worms (Platyhelminthes) which are absolutely transmitted via feces with heartworms (Nematodae) which are transmitted via arthropod (in this case, a mosquito) vector?

Secondly, in the case of the mosquito vector for parasites: these parasites also infect the mosquito and other animals act as reservoirs. In a naiive region, most will be harmless, but that changes within a couple of generations. Many mosquitos will feed on one animal, and one of them is bound to be infected. All the animals in a region can become infected quickly, and then 100% of the mosquitos from then on will be carriers.

Consider: the first female mosquito gets infected during a blood meal, but all the offspring will be infected, and they infect their blood-meal donors, which infect other female mosquitos, and so on.

Observe malaria. It takes only a few weeks for one infected animal to cause 100% of mosquitos in the region to become vectors.

Also be mindful that parasites can live in reservoir species. Humans are reservoir species for dog heartworm, as are cats, squirrels, raccoons... long list.

So you are a vet. Or at least that is exactly the same overblown crap a vet would say. It's utterly impossible for 100 percent of anything to be anything. Not to mention that being pure exaggerated opinion. When is the last time there has been a Malaria outbreak? Much less the other crap you compare it to.

 

[blutoski]

So you are a vet. Or at least that is exactly the same overblown crap a vet would say. It's utterly impossible for 100 percent of anything to be anything. Not to mention that being pure exaggerated opinion. When is the last time there has been a Malaria outbreak? Much less the other crap you compare it to.

I see. Well, I'm not a vet. Technically, I'm a "suit" right now In this case, my opinion comes from degrees in microbiology, and experience as a research immunologist. Granted, my expertise is in viral replication, rather than protozoan transmission, but malaria is similar enough, and shares an identical vector and life cycle to heartworm. It's a pretty good comparison.

Malaria does not really have 'outbreaks' since it's endemic in much of the world, but when they happen they are analyzed to death. It is studied because of the human impact, and because outbreaks are considered evidence of climate change. Approximately a billion humans are infected with malaria, and 1M die from it annually. It is the leading cause of infant death in sub-Saharan Africa.

I'm concerned this is spinning off topic, and will close with the ironic fact that Stossel's other weird obsession is malaria: he claims it is such a serious illness, and outbreaks are so common and growing in frequency and seriousness, that it's time to ramp up manufacture of DDT, and spray it all over hell's half acre.

He claims DDT's harmless, and a perfectly acceptable place for it is soaked into kids' soccer fields. That's when I started to detect that he was going a little... out there, you know?

 

[delphi_ote]

So you are a vet. Or at least that is exactly the same overblown crap a vet would say. It's utterly impossible for 100 percent of anything to be anything. Not to mention that being pure exaggerated opinion. When is the last time there has been a Malaria outbreak? Much less the other crap you compare it to.

The precise phenomina of which you are speaking has been explained to you patiently. This opinion is backed by the research community (i.e. there is evidence for it.) Your opinion differs, yet you haven't explained precisely what your alternative hypothesis is nor have you presented any evidence against the expert opinion. In fact, you haven't convinced me you have any knowledge of this subject at all.

To move away from the "overblown crap" and into your prefered form of communication: Unless you have proof, shut your ignorant mouth.

 

[Hardenbergh]

Energetic Rebalancing

Someone gave me a copy of Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You To Know About for my birthday. I read something in Chapter 6, How to Never Get Sick Again that I hadn't even heard of before. It's known as energetic rebalancing. Has anyone ever heard of it here?

Linda Gray is quoted as saying:

"I have used this technology for years. It is the most glorious gift that anyone could receive."

Dr. Wayne W. Dyer is quoted as saying:

"In regard to Stephen Lewis, EMC, and the AIM Program: Everything is energy. Everything and everyone has a frequency. Those frequencies that are out of balance can be identified and removed. I know this to be true. I have seen the Sanctuary process at work. I practice it daily. My entire family participates in the AIM Program, and I have seen wonderful results. This is real, it is transforming, it is true healing, and it is a giant step into the inevitable future where each of us is our own personal, transcendental, and totally enlightened leader. I have found that in my higher self, and so can you. It is available now."

And Courtney Cox Arquette, actress:

"I've been fortunate to have participated in Energetic Balancing for over three years. I don't know what I would do without it. I don't believe anyone can afford not to be part of it."

Here's a more in-depth description of energetic balancing from the chapter:

"Frequency generators have been around for decades. Royal Rife was using frequencies in the 1920s and 1930s to cure cancer. Today there are several machines using frequencies to balance out a person's energy, thus eliminating the energetic frequency of the imbalance or disease. When the frequency of the disease you have has been neutralized, the disease goes away. These machines absolutely, 100 percent allow the body to virtually cure all diseases. They are fast, painless, and inexpensive. They are also outlawed by the FDA. Individual practitioners using these machines never publicly claim that they cure anything for fear that the FDA will prosecute these people for using an unlicensed medical device and curing people without the legally approved drugs. These machines include the Intero, Vegatest, Dermatron, and others. The most advanced technology that I know of is used by a man in Southern California who treats many well known celebrities. His technology is so advanced that, no matter where you are in the world, he can have his computerized frequency machine monitoring you twenty-four hours a day, seven days per week, constantly balancing the energetic frequencies in your body. I personally have been using this technology for the last seven years [Kevin Trudeau], and I have never in that time been sick. When everyone around me had a serious cold, I got the sniffles for about two hours. When all my friends got the flu, I never experienced a single symptom. I highly recommend you read the book Sanctuary to get the full story on this revolutionary technology."

When I read this, Kevin Trudeau began to lose his credibility, at least in my eyes. What do you think? Kind of woo-woo, don't you think? Has this already been debunked in the forums or elsewhere? This is the first time I've heard of such a gadget. There's more in the chapter on the subject but I've quoted too much already.

www.energeticbalancing.us
www.energeticmatrix.com

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561708453

 

[Ducky]

Someone gave me a copy of Natural Cures "They" Don't Want You To Know About for my birthday. I read something in Chapter 6, How to Never Get Sick Again that I hadn't even heard of before. It's known as energetic rebalancing. Has anyone ever heard of it here?

Linda Gray is quoted as saying:

"I have used this technology for years. It is the most glorious gift that anyone could receive."

Dr. Wayne W. Dyer is quoted as saying:

"In regard to Stephen Lewis, EMC, and the AIM Program: Everything is energy. Everything and everyone has a frequency. Those frequencies that are out of balance can be identified and removed. I know this to be true. I have seen the Sanctuary process at work. I practice it daily. My entire family participates in the AIM Program, and I have seen wonderful results. This is real, it is transforming, it is true healing, and it is a giant step into the inevitable future where each of us is our own personal, transcendental, and totally enlightened leader. I have found that in my higher self, and so can you. It is available now."

And Courtney Cox Arquette, actress:

"I've been fortunate to have participated in Energetic Balancing for over three years. I don't know what I would do without it. I don't believe anyone can afford not to be part of it."

Here's a more in-depth description of energetic balancing from the chapter:

"Frequency generators have been around for decades. Royal Rife was using frequencies in the 1920s and 1930s to cure cancer. Today there are several machines using frequencies to balance out a person's energy, thus eliminating the energetic frequency of the imbalance or disease. When the frequency of the disease you have has been neutralized, the disease goes away. These machines absolutely, 100 percent allow the body to virtually cure all diseases. They are fast, painless, and inexpensive. They are also outlawed by the FDA. Individual practitioners using these machines never publicly claim that they cure anything for fear that the FDA will prosecute these people for using an unlicensed medical device and curing people without the legally approved drugs. These machines include the Intero, Vegatest, Dermatron, and others. The most advanced technology that I know of is used by a man in Southern California who treats many well known celebrities. His technology is so advanced that, no matter where you are in the world, he can have his computerized frequency machine monitoring you twenty-four hours a day, seven days per week, constantly balancing the energetic frequencies in your body. I personally have been using this technology for the last seven years [Kevin Trudeau], and I have never in that time been sick. When everyone around me had a serious cold, I got the sniffles for about two hours. When all my friends got the flu, I never experienced a single symptom. I highly recommend you read the book Sanctuary to get the full story on this revolutionary technology."

When I read this, Kevin Trudeau began to lose his credibility, at least in my eyes. What do you think? Kind of woo-woo, don't you think? Has this already been debunked in the forums or elsewhere? This is the first time I've heard of such a gadget. There's more in the chapter on the subject but I've quoted too much already.

www.energeticbalancing.us
www.energeticmatrix.com

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1561708453

Well you don't need to go far to debunk this. I got one sentence into your fist link and the crap detector blew up.

here it is:

The Quantum Prayer System is the most advanced quantum physics and prayer technology.

No need to read any further...

 

[Hardenbergh]

Well you don't need to go far to debunk this. I got one sentence into your fist link and the crap detector blew up.

here it is:



No need to read any further...

I believe in prayer but I think they're trying to play God here. I've heard of chakra balancing--I guess there are 6 or 7 chakras but this Dermatron thing is all new to me.

http://www.docjaakkola.com/doc_bionetics.htm

Here's a website about the Vegatest technology:

http://www.oirf.com/vega/vega.html

From Quack Watch:

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/electro.html

 

[Vagabond]

The precise phenomina of which you are speaking has been explained to you patiently. This opinion is backed by the research community (i.e. there is evidence for it.) Your opinion differs, yet you haven't explained precisely what your alternative hypothesis is nor have you presented any evidence against the expert opinion. In fact, you haven't convinced me you have any knowledge of this subject at all.

To move away from the "overblown crap" and into your prefered form of communication: Unless you have proof, shut your ignorant mouth.

And what exact point did you make **** *** ******? At least it was my discussion, it certainly wasn't yours.

Edited by tim: 

Vagabond, desist from personal epithets. It does not further your argument and reflects badly only on yourself.

 

[Vagabond]

I see. Well, I'm not a vet. Technically, I'm a "suit" right now In this case, my opinion comes from degrees in microbiology, and experience as a research immunologist. Granted, my expertise is in viral replication, rather than protozoan transmission, but malaria is similar enough, and shares an identical vector and life cycle to heartworm. It's a pretty good comparison.

Yeah, well I don't care what your credentials are. I don't have a degree in microbiology but I am smart enough to know saying "100" percent of mosquitos would be carriers is a load of horse manure. Ten percent would be massively high and if it was that many there would be animals dropping from heartworms right and left. And of course we know they aren't. If you aren't a vet I am not sure what motivation you have to exaggerate so much. People catch Malaria in certain parts of the world but they certainly aren't dropping right and left either.

Why do only mosquitos in tropical regions spread the disease?
Stossel didn't say Malaria was all that prevelant or deadly his major point was that DDT just isn't that hazardous and Malaria is worse.

 

[delphi_ote]

And what exact point did you make **** *** ******? At least it was my discussion, it certainly wasn't yours.

Edited by tim: 

Vagabond, desist from personal epithets. It does not further your argument and reflects badly only on yourself.

Several of the most honest and thoughtful posters on this board are vets. They're good people who studied very hard for a difficult career, because they care about animals. If you choose to call those in their profession liars and extortionists without evidence or logic to back up your accusation, forgive me if I'm not quiet about that fact.

 

[blutoski]

People catch Malaria in certain parts of the world but they certainly aren't dropping right and left either.

Infections are deadly when you get sick from something else, or are malnourished &c. That's why the victims are mostly infants. Approx 1M/yr, which is about 1/250 of those who show symptoms, which is one in four of those who are infected. The primary symptom is fatigue, which rarely justifies hospitalization. I'm not sure what your point is with this comment.

Why do only mosquitos in tropical regions spread the disease?

As I said above, the parasite also infects the mosquito. As is typical of parasites, they require pretty specific hosts. There are only 60-70 species of mosquito that can host malaria, and they thrive best in warmer weather. Due to climate change, their range is expanding.

Stossel didn't say Malaria was all that prevelant or deadly his major point was that DDT just isn't that hazardous and Malaria is worse.

Splitting hairs. Perhaps I was putting words in his mouth to call a sixth of the global population 'prevalent' and 1M dead/yr 'deadly', but I'm not sure what other expressions to use for something that is, uh, prevalent and, uh, deadly.


Other than that, I think we're done here.

 

[Jas]

Are you familiar with what a "skank" is? I am thinking no. How about a troll? I am thinking no again.

How can I compete with the blinding logic presented in 'Argument from Skank'?

However, iirc, last time you called me stupid AND a skank. Good to see you're mixing it up with 'troll'. Keeping it fresh, as always.

 

[Hardenbergh]

Kevin Trudeau talks about the benefits of Vitamin E in his book. He doesn't believe in synthetic vitamins. He recommends Vitamin E, calcium and whole food supplements. He said that he wasn't allowed to mention any brand names because he'd be in trouble with the FDA. He said that there were only two companies that produce a pure, natural Vitamin E (unesterified and without soy oil or other fillers). Here's a company that I found that sounds like the one he's talking about. I just started taking Vitamin E but not from this particular company as the health food store doesn't carry it. Perhaps it's only available from the website. I am only taking 100 I.U. just to see how I react to it.

Does anyone here use whole food supplements either in tablet, capsule or powder form?

Green Vibrance (from Vibrant Health)
Greens Plus
Solgar Earth Source Greens & More (with mushrooms)
Emerald Greens
Berry Green (from New Chapter)
Garden of Life Perfect Food


http://www.acgraceco.com/mainhome.html

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Vagabond, I'll direct you here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartworms
Please take special note of the Course of infestation and Epidemiology sections.

Heartworms are very widespread, but environmental factors and preventative medication keep the rate of infection in check.

Following the resource link at the bottom http://cal.vet.upenn.edu/merial/hrtworm/hw_top.htm goes into greater depth of the aforementioned sections.

 

[Luke T.]

Oh, man. I saw this topic too late. My wife was just in Virginia a couple weeks ago visiting her best friend and came back heartbroken. Her friend is totally into Trudeau. Too bad I didn't see this topic in time to tell her to watch 20/20.

Is the program archived anywhere?

 

[Luke T.]

Ah, it is archived here: http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Health/story?id=1527774

The whole video is there.

Emailing to my wife's friend for sure.

 

[baron_army]

I just think Libertarianism and skepticism aren't necessarily the same thing, and I'm getting tired of people using skepticsm as a place to grind whatever political axe they have at the moment. It undermines everything we try to do.

While they aren't the same thing, one does not exclude the other. I am a Libertarian and a Skeptic. I will avoid commenting on using Skepticism to grind political axes because your statements adequately demonstrate that agenda is alive and well.

 

[Jimbo07]

KT talked about a study at Calgary University, and the reporter said something along the lines of, "Well, we contacted Calgary University, and they have no record of such study." To which KT responded, "Well, I have the study on my desk, and I could send it to you." Needless to say, he never did.

I work in Calgary. For anyone interested, there is an article in today's Herald noting that the U of C's lawyers have sent KT a cease and desist letter.

How come woo writers are so rich? I have got to invent some woo and sell 5 million books... I can't stand this stuff, but I don't know if it's because they mislead people, or because I'm jealous that they have money and I don't

 

[tsg]

How come woo writers are so rich? I have got to invent some woo and sell 5 million books... I can't stand this stuff, but I don't know if it's because they mislead people, or because I'm jealous that they have money and I don't

There's an old saying: "Virtue is its own punishment."