tsig
a carbon based life-form
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With a conoe? I
Kevin Barrett, Supercreepafragalisticparanoidatrocious
- Thread starter Gravy
- Start date
With a conoe? I
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
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Why don't you start a thread on these subjects instead of hijacking this one? I don't see how any of this has anything to do w/ Barrett.I have to admit, that before today I had no idea who you were. Then I saw the hardfire debate with You, Bermas and Avery and found out. Respect for all you work on the subject, not to say I agree on every detail. I guess if someone gets you to doubt something, they can get anyone.
To stay on the subject, it really bothers me when someone is proven wtong and they continue to rely on their false belief. That's wrong and denial. And that bother me the most about the so called CT. Nobody can now everything about that day. But when something is clearly proven to be false, everyone should agree on that and continue the debate on other subjects. Of course it is also up to debate, what it takes to prove something 100%. But that's up to everyone's person. I have changed my view on many of the subjects. I still have doubt on others. But I don't want to rely ono false evidence. I want to bring out the topics that still seem unclear or unexplained.
I'd like to ask You a couple of questions. Everybody else can answer as well.
1. What is your take on the Able Danger program?
2. What is your answer to the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition's petition to the congress?
http://www.nswbc.org/Congressional Testimonies & Letters/NSWBC Letter Sept 13, 2004.htm
And to all the NSWBC allegations concerning 9/11 and Al Qaida?
Can be found here.
http://www.nswbc.org/index.htm
3. Why were none of the 4 black boxes officially found at the WTC, but [SIZE=-1]Mike Bellone and Nicholas De Masi talk about three being found?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]4. Why did Bush repeatedly say to have seen the first hit live on TV?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]5. Do you think that flight 77 hit the radar gap by accident, or was there knowledge about the radar gaps publicly available before 9/11?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Appreciate every civilized answer by everyone.[/SIZE]
Gravy
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I'll take a crack at these, but I'm certainly no expert on national security policy.
–Able Danger: much is still classified. What seems clear is that the primary person claiming that information about Atta was known and should have been disseminated, was not the closest to the events. His claims are not supported by some people who were closer. There's also the problem that some of claims are based on memory alone. Why is there not more documentation? Because intelligence officials were diligently following the law about how information gathered about potential terrorists could be shared with domestic law enforcement officials. That's a flaw in the system that the 9/11 Commission addressed. I find it a bit absurd that some of the same people who criticize the intelligence agencies for (allegedly) not following up on a potential threat because they were following protection-of-privacy rules, are critical of reasonable proposals that attempt to address that problem.
–The NSWC petition: they seem to be saying that they know specific individuals who should be held accountable. I've asked that question of many people who want someone in the government or military to be held accountable for 9/11, but no one can tell me who should be punished and for what wrongdoing. I'd like to hear that from the whistleblower petitioners. Are they all claiming to be under a gag order?
The issue of extending the Whistleblower Protection Act to intelligence agencies is a tricky one, and I haven't given a lot of thought to it. There are such things as national security secrets that foreign agents shouldn't know. The issue as I see it is how to protect both the whistleblowers who don't feel their concerns are being addressed and want to take them to another level, while also protecting the secrets. A separate court? But what if the whistleblowers aren't satisfied with that outcome, either?
I haven't seen any of the whistleblowers who signed that petition suggest that what they knew, had it been acted on in a timely fashion, would have stopped the 9/11 attacks.
The issue of possible Saudi government connections is very interesting. I'll have to read the Bob Graham book. We'd all like to know what's in those 27 redacted pages of the Joint Commission report. Then again, what is the definition of Saudi government involvement? The Saudi royal family contains about 6,000 people. I'd be very surprised if some of the hijackers didn't have some connections there. The important thing is, did the terrorists receive aid directly from Saudi rulers? Since it was so easy to launder money through the many Islamic charities, and since so many legitimate transactions through those charities were done in cash, it seems that anyone with half a brain could have aided the terrorists without being caught. But that raises another problem: the 9/11 Commission estimated that the whole 9/11 operation only cost $500,000. The terrorists didn't NEED financial help from any government or ruler. They could have used help with fake passports, etc., but that's not something a high-ranking official would need to be involved with. Look at how easily some of them obtained real driver licenses with fake names in the U.S.: they paid a guy in a parking lot $100 per license. Would U.S. officials do unscrupulous things in certain circumstances to protect Saudis? I think so. Oil + arms makes for strange bedfellows. I also think that if U.S. officials knew of direct foreign government involvement in the 9/11 attacks, people would speak out. Just my opinion.
–The WTC missing black boxes. Most likely, IMO, DeMasi and Bellone lied. I think their story is absolutely preposterous. And AFAIK, they haven't asserted it since 2003. It could be that they did find some interesting aircraft part, blew that up into a story about finding the black boxes, and got caught. Note that they never brought this to the attention of the mass media. The story only came out in a self-published book. Bellone said no one can keep him quiet about it. Um, who've you talked to then, Mike? It's almost 2007.
–Bush saying he saw the first plane hit? Busy day, man.
–The type of primary radar gap that caused flight 77 to go missing for so long was common across the U.S. I don't think there's any reason to believe that the flight 77 hijackers knew that the Parkersburg, W. VA radar, which Indianapolis ATC used, was secondary only. Also, ATCs weren't given a blanket order to search for all planes disappearing from secondary radar until flight 77 was fairly close to D.C. Seems like the FAA should have known to make that announcement sooner.
ref
Master Poster
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Kevin is 47. Speaking of scholars, have you ever debated Dr. David Ray Griffin? I would find that interesting.
ref
Master Poster
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But he is calm and collective, is not lost for words, has done his own research, read the reports and written books about them, and disagrees with most of Gravy's points. Those sound like ingredients for a good debate. Plus I recall he himself called for a debate between the two sides.
And no space weapons. Think he is still with the CD.
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
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JamesB
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He is also writing a book on debunking the debunkers. I hope I don't get left out. The section from New Pearl Harbor on missiles and military jets at the Pentagon still stands as a milestone of deception and dishonesty.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/07/new-pearl-harbor.html
