Kerry Trumps Bush Again

corplinx

JREF Kid
corplinx
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
8,952
The Kerry campaign continues to impress me. Today Kerry used the high ground tactic on Bush.

During the primary season, Kerry ran 15 negative ads on Bush. Recently, the Bush campaign ran a slightly misleading ad based on the fact that Kerry says he will balance the budget and spend tons of bucks on new programs. So the Bush campaign's ad said that Kerry will raise taxes by that much from putting two plus tww together. Misleading indeed, but if Kerry doesn't plan to raise that much revenue then his own arguements are inconsistent.

Sooo, today Kerry came out taking the high ground and accusing the Bush adminsitration of launching the first negative attack. He called for a debates in the spring on the real issues.

Now, Joe Six-pack is right in Kerry's pocket. Bush looks negative, Kerry looks positive, and Kerry inches even closer towards dethroning Bush.

For all of those who though there was noone better than Karl Rove, some star in the Kerry campaign is making the Bush guys look like amateurs.

The only concern I have with Kerry is southern voters. Southern voters don't like this sort of mealy-mouthed talk. However, depending on the news coverage I doubt they will see it for what it is.

Until now, I thought Bill Clinton was the best campaigner I had ever seen. Kerry doesn't half the charisma BC did but his campaign just keeps capturing checkers every week.
 
Wow the Kerry campagin ran 15 negitive ads about Bush? I saw a few Moveon.org commercials but didn't see any kerry campaigm ads . What is your source? I'd like to see the wording and such.
 
TillEulenspiegel said:
Wow the Kerry campagin ran 15 negitive ads about Bush? I saw a few Moveon.org commercials but didn't see any kerry campaigm ads . What is your source? I'd like to see the wording and such.
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Mort Kondracke has been keeping a running since the beginning of primary season. He is a slightly right of center mostly moderate/pragmatic columnist and editor of roll-call magazine. I don't always agree with his viewpoints and sometimes I consider his analysis shallow. But he is usually honest with his facts and figures.

One of the things he mentioned is that during the primary season instead of the candidates talking about each other they talked about Bush (and very negatively). Negative campaigning has been going on for six months already from John Kerry basically.

Now, I have no problem with negative campaigning. I have a problem with mealy-mouthed yankees. However, despite my disdain for this sort of misdirection, I can't help but admire the effectiveness of it.
 
I Googled him and found out he's a Fox news creature, but could find no direct referance to the negitive ads. Prahaps You can provide a link?
 
Most of the Democratic primary ads I saw here were aimed at Bush. But to be honest, I don't remember which candidate ran which ad. They all blurred together.
 
I can understand not being able to link to Kerry's negative ads, but can you link to Kerry saying today that bush started the negative ads?
 
Heh, found it myself... and then some.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/03/12/fri/index.html.

The article mentions a few of Kerry's ads...

What about September 3, 2003? Aside from being the Grind's birthday, that's when Kerry first ran a TV ad calling Bush's jobs record an "astonishing failure."
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Or howzabout October 31? Aside from being Halloween, it's the day Kerry first aired a spot in Iowa saying Bush's administration "works for those at the top, not you," and has passed "the biggest tax cuts in history to the wealthy."
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"George Bush and Dick Cheney let polluters and oil companies rewrite our environmental laws. They defend the loopholes that let corporations avoid taxes by moving jobs overseas," an announcer says in that Kerry spot, titled "Courage."
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:D
 
Waaa Your link is bad. So these commercials were run by the Kerry campaign?
I'd like to know where corplinx got the 15 commercial figure from.
 
TillEulenspiegel said:
Waaa Your link is bad. So these commercials were run by the Kerry campaign?
I'd like to know where corplinx got the 15 commercial figure from.
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Unfortuntately, I don't have a link handy. I took it on good faith from Mort Kondacke (who reported the number on Special Report 3.13.04) but I don't have a transcript or his notes. He may work for Foxnews as a contributor but he has an established history in the Washington press. If he says there were 15 ads, I would bank on it before it appears in an empirical study.
 
The reason this is unacceptable is not because there have been negative ads against Bush ( I have stated I have seen some from moveon.org) but rather that you site a particular number which both your thread title and subsequent analysis attribute Kerry as being personally responsible. Not only can you not find a link to the source you sited , but the nebulously quoted source doesn't seem to have resolved into any information that backs up Your (his ) claims. If you quote information, you should be able to verify it's voracity. On a skeptics board one would expect that to be the norm.

Kerry Trumps Bush Again
Kerry ran 15 negative ads
 
TillEulenspiegel said:
Not only can you not find a link to the source you sited , but the nebulously quoted source doesn't seem to have resolved into any information that backs up Your (his ) claims.
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You make two fallacies. One is that there is a hyperlink to the source. I took the figure on good faith and if you don't trust the source that is fine with me. If Mort Kondracke says that Kerry ran 15 different ads during primary season with negative messages about Bush, I consider that imformation accurate. He is anal about these sorts of stats and has shown reliability in the past.

However, "Kerry Trumps Bush" is just my opinion. I think Kerry got the better of Bush and that is just my opinion for now until someone rolls out an opinion poll asking who is campaigning more negatively. I didn't expect anyone would take Kerry Trumps Bush as a statement of fact, so let me clear it up by saying it is my own analysis of the fallout on this issue.
 
I've linked this link before. Dated January 23, on Kerry's Senate website, not his campaign web site.

"I am disappointed that the administration has not acted sooner in alleviating the health care crisis facing our veterans and better planned for our returning troops. It is my hope that this administration will immediately address the back-log and keep faith with those who keep our country safe.”
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So at the very least, Kerry was first with the negative attacks. Anyone who has watched the Democratic primary debates the last several months would have seen that.
 
corplinx said:


You make two fallacies. One is that there is a hyperlink to the source. I took the figure on good faith and if you don't trust the source that is fine with me. If Mort Kondracke says that Kerry ran 15 different ads during primary season with negative messages about Bush, I consider that imformation accurate. He is anal about these sorts of stats and has shown reliability in the past.
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I did not state that there was a (single ) hyperlink I said I could find no direct reference attrubited to the persan whom you ascribe the quotes to . I'm glad that You find the source of Your information to be relitively unimpeachable. Unfortunatly the standard of eveidence on a public board of "skeptics" requires more then your faith in someone elses view of "facts". Especially one that cannot be verified. If this is the base line of the formulation your posts I reccomend that You either migrate to the R and P forum or find another board where your fellows will slap you on the back and revel in your opinion wether it is fact or not.

However, "Kerry Trumps Bush" is just my opinion. I think Kerry got the better of Bush and that is just my opinion for now until someone rolls out an opinion poll asking who is campaigning more negatively. I didn't expect anyone would take Kerry Trumps Bush as a statement of fact, so let me clear it up by saying it is my own analysis of the fallout on this issue.
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Well rest assured that at least one or two people on this board that require facts and realise that your opinion is Not fact
 
My assessment is that for some people.. politics is their religion. Thus they take things on faith and ignore some facts here and there. Also they state things like 'Kerry trumps Bush' because it makes them feel good.
 
corplinx said:


You make two fallacies. One is that there is a hyperlink to the source. I took the figure on good faith and if you don't trust the source that is fine with me. If Mort Kondracke says that Kerry ran 15 different ads during primary season with negative messages about Bush, I consider that imformation accurate. He is anal about these sorts of stats and has shown reliability in the past.
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I did not state that there was a (single ) hyperlink I said I could find no direct reference attributed to the person whom you ascribe the quotes to . I'm glad that You find the source of Your information to be relatively unimpeachable. Unfortunately the standard of evidence on a public board of "skeptics" requires more then your faith in someone Else's view of "facts". Especially one that cannot be verified. If this is the base line of the formulation your posts I recommend that You either migrate to the R and P forum or find another board where your fellows will slap you on the back and revel in your opinion whether it is fact or not.

However, "Kerry Trumps Bush" is just my opinion. I think Kerry got the better of Bush and that is just my opinion for now until someone rolls out an opinion poll asking who is campaigning more negatively. I didn't expect anyone would take Kerry Trumps Bush as a statement of fact, so let me clear it up by saying it is my own analysis of the fallout on this issue.
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Well rest assured that at least one or two people on this board that require facts and realize that your opinion is Not fact

Sorry for the double post , I can't seem to delete the primary draft. When did this happen?
 
TillEulenspiegel said:

Unfortunately the standard of evidence on a public board of "skeptics" requires more then your faith in someone Else's view of "facts". Especially one that cannot be verified. If this is the base line of the formulation your posts I recommend that You either migrate to the R and P forum or find another board where your fellows will slap you on the back and revel in your opinion whether it is fact or not.
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Well, be a raging prick about it why don't you.

I cited Kondracke as an expert. His credentials are good. Now, I could be making a fallacy of appeal to authority by I doubt it. Unless you have evidence that Kondracke is not reputable then I see no reason to use his figure as at least a ballpark figure.

It seems be good enough for Matthew Dowd in the Bush campaign who has used the number now in an interview with the Washington Post .

This number also appears in the Tallahassee Democrat :
John Kerry has already run 15 negative ads directly attacking President Bush. Kerry has aired $4.9 million in negative advertising across 15 states in more than 40 markets. These TV ads have run more than 9,712 times.
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Mind you, neither of these sources quotes a media research group or anything of the like in their figure.

If you don't want to take the word of a reputable Washington longtime insider like Kondracke, I can understand it. However, you may not want to post on the politics forum if you don't even know who the players are. I recommend you post on the R and P forum where people will slap you on the back for not knowing who is reputable.
 
One of the better comments from some anonymous Staffer, getting a bit of airtime, was to the effect "Kerry needs to debate himself until has an actual position on any issue. Then the schedule for President Bush/Kerry Debates can be made".
 
Hey man I'm not being a prick, You made a claim and couldn't provide sources. Thats pretty simple.

I did some more goggling and this is what I found (Evidently the source of the quote ):

From USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-03-11-bush-ads_x.htm?csp=23
"Matthew Dowd, chief strategist for the Bush campaign, said Kerry has run 15 negative ads aimed at Bush...."


Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...ode=&contentId=A56111-2004Feb19&notFound=true

"We have a job to do to correct the false impression given about us and the false impression about Kerry himself," said Matthew Dowd, Bush's director of polling and media. "This guy did 15 attack ads on us in the last few months."

Not a detailed discription. I couldn't resolve any ads or history from the RNC or DNC or other mainstream sources. I don't know what happened in the northern states but in Florida the ONLY ads pro or con either candidate I saw was from moveon.org
 
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