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Merged Judge blocks moratorium on off-shore drilling

That, and if he were to answer honestly he'd have to say, "Well, Senator, the spill was caused by a bunch of dumb:rule10's who repeatedly ignored safety standards. Which is why I'm calling them dumb:rule10's. Furthermore, mr. Senator, since I am their boss, I am also a dumb:rule10 for letting the corporate culture get to the point of allowing dumb:rule10's to make decisions as important as the ones that they :rule10'd up."

Agreed.
 
That, and if he were to answer honestly he'd have to say, "Well, Senator, the spill was caused by a bunch of dumb:rule10's who repeatedly ignored safety standards. Which is why I'm calling them dumb:rule10's. Furthermore, mr. Senator, since I am their boss, I am also a dumb:rule10 for letting the corporate culture get to the point of allowing dumb:rule10's to make decisions as important as the ones that they :rule10'd up."
for example:

A letter to the editors of the Wall Street Journal:
In response to Tony Hayward's June 4 op-ed "What BP Is Doing about the Gulf Gusher": It is time that the publicity spin that BP is putting on this disaster is put into perspective. What is alarming about the content of the article is not so much what it says, but what it does not say. Mr. Haywood, chief executive officer of British Petroleum, asks, "How could this happen?"

The answer has largely to do with BP's inability to follow its existing well-construction policies and those of the industry generally. The BP testimony to the House Committee on Energy and Commerce on May 25 says it all, but perhaps that material needs to be explained.

From looking at that evidence, this is what we know:
1) When cementing the production casing the cementing crew, which was being supervised by BP, had difficulty landing the top plug into the casing shoe. This was the first "red flag" because a satisfactory cement job to the production string is fundamental to the safe operation on a go forward basis. The fact that the cement job did not go as planned should have caused the testing operation that followed to be carefully scrutinized, it clearly was not.

2) As is normal practice, the integrity of the pressure tight seal was tested by pressuring up on the casing and observing the pressure response. If pressure bleeds off there is clearly a problem with the pressure integrity of the shoe, However, industry practice dictates that a positive test, that is no pressure drop, is not diagnostic, simply because the reservoir pressure is sufficient to retain the pressure being applied. A negative test is useful because it is diagnostic of a failed cement job. In this case the test was positive.

3) Again, as is normal industry practice a negative pressure test was run, with pressure released from inside the casing and the pressure response was measured. In this case evidence has been bought before the committee that there was a 1,400 psi pressure response. This response is highly diagnostic and is therefore the second "red flag" and at this point the BP supervisors should have concluded that they had what the industry calls a "wet shoe." That is that the cement job had failed to form a seal at the casing around the reservoir which we know contains high pressure oil and gas.

4) At this point a decision should have been made to do a remedial cement job; this is an expensive operation, but having seen a 1,400 psi response, there was no choice.

5) The BP engineers then proceeded with the balance of the operation to temporarily abandon the well. This meant replacing the 14-pound-per-gallon mud that was in the wellbore with 8.5-pound-per-gallon sea water. The denser mud had been, up until this time, the primary pressure control and was keeping the hydrocarbons in place despite the lack of an adequate cement job at the casing shoe. Given the two red flags that had been thrown up previously, one would have expected that as a precaution a cement plug would have been placed somewhere in the wellbore as a secondary pressure seal before this primary pressure control system (heavy mud) was evacuated from the wellbore. But at the very least the mud replacement operation should have been heavily scrutinized. Clearly it was not.

6) Evidence provided at the hearing, including the pressure data transmitted from the rig for the last two hours before the explosion, is diagnostic. At 8:20 p.m. on the day of the explosion the pressure data suggest there was a constant flow of sea water being pumped into the drill pipe that was displacing the heavier mud system which was the primary pressure control for the well. The rate going in was 900 gallons per minute, but the flow data of mud coming out was steadily increasing from 900 gallons a minute at 8:20 p.m. to a rate of 1,200 gallons per minute at 8:34 p.m. During this 14-minute period one can conclude that hydrocarbons were flowing and pushing more fluid from the wellbore than was being pumped in. This is what this data is supposed to monitor, but the well flow evidence would appear to have been ignored, because at this point the BP rig supervisors should have gone to a well kill operation and started to pump heavy mud back into the well bore to restore the primary control mechanism. Instead the mud continued to be evacuated.

7) At 9:08 there was another piece of evidence that is very clear cut. The sea water pump was shut down presumably to check the well stability. However, with the pump shut down a pressure increase was seen in the standpipe (SPP). This pressure response has to be associated with the reservoir flowing hydrocarbons and again at this point kill operations should have been initiated by the BP engineers.

8) From 9:08 p.m. to around 9:30, despite the sea-water pump either running at a constant volume or shut-in, the SPP continued to increase; again this is evidence that the well is producing hydrocarbons and should have caused a kill operation to be initiated.

9) At 9:30 p.m. the seawater pump was again shut-in to presumably observe what the well was doing, and again there is a notable increase in the standpipe pressure.

10) At 9:49 the SPP showed a very large increase and the explosion followed -- this is obviously the point at which the gas and oil reached the drill floor and found an ignition source.

Mr. Hayward and BP have taken the position that this tragedy is all about a fail-safe blow-out preventer (BOP) failing, but in reality the BOP is really the backup system, and yes we expect that it will work. However, all of the industry practice and construction systems are aimed at ensuring that one never has to use that device. Thus the industry has for decades relied on a dense mud system to keep the hydrocarbons in the reservoir and everything that is done to maintain wellbore integrity is tested, and where a wellbore integrity test fails, remedial action is taken. This well failed its casing integrity test and nothing was done. The data collected during a critical operation to monitor hydrocarbon inflow was ignored and nothing was done. This spill is about human failure and it is time BP put its hand up and admitted that.

Terry Barr
President
Samson Oil and Gas
Lakewood, Colo.
 
Only if the requirements to get the permits are complete. If one of the requirements is a viable contingency plan in the event of a blow out, and BP and the other companies still have no such plans, then we should at the very least suspend those permits temporarily. Seems like a prudent move that doesn't go as far as it could, legally.

I notice you still haven't answered my question. Hayward told Congress he couldn't answer their questions about the causes of the Deepwater Horizon disaster because investigations aren't complete and the causes are not known.

You claim we know all we need to know to guarantee the safety on other rigs operating in the Gulf.

Was Hayward lying?
You're absolutely right. We cant "guarantee the safety on other rigs operating in the Gulf."
We also can't guarantee the safety of aircraft, automobiles, dish washers, surgery, food, water supplies, or crossing the street, even with the "walk" light.
 
Right, but we can actually clean up thos other accidents swiftly, thus impacting the environment and other people minimally.
 
The point is Moratoriums, Regulations, Commissions, etc are not going to guarantee either 100% safety, or any real ability to plug another blowout, or clean up a massive spill.

What do you propose? You really wish to stop US oil extraction efforts? The 6 months gains nothing useful.
 
The point is Moratoriums, Regulations, Commissions, etc are not going to guarantee either 100% safety, or any real ability to plug another blowout, or clean up a massive spill.

What do you propose? You really wish to stop US oil extraction efforts? The 6 months gains nothing useful.
ken has shown that people mean nothing to him. "The Environment" is all-encompassing (except people)
 
Oh Kenny boy, the pipes, the pipes are calling
From gulf to gulf, and down beneath the waves
The drilling's stopped, but all that oil's still leaking
Tony Hayward must go and O' must bide.
But come ye back when billions are in escrow
Or when the regulators need some blow
t'is oil in there in deep water and shallow
Oh Kenny boy, oh Kenny boy, I told you so.

Sorry, I got stuck on the second verse.
 
The point is Moratoriums, Regulations, Commissions, etc are not going to guarantee either 100% safety, or any real ability to plug another blowout, or clean up a massive spill.

What do you propose? You really wish to stop US oil extraction efforts? The 6 months gains nothing useful.

Nothing will guarantee safety, so let's just stop regulations or even caring about safety at all. Let's dismantle OSHA.

OR, we can stop oil drilling until the industry develops technology to deal with eruptions like this.

If I made a widget that made money, and even prospered my neighbors, but didn't have the ability to stop that widget from destroying the neighborhood if that widget malfunctioned, should I keep making widgets?
 
ken has shown that people mean nothing to him. "The Environment" is all-encompassing (except people)

Nothing will guarantee safety, so let's just stop regulations or even caring about safety at all. Let's dismantle OSHA.

OR, we can stop oil drilling until the industry develops technology to deal with eruptions like this.

If I made a widget that made money, and even prospered my neighbors, but didn't have the ability to stop that widget from destroying the neighborhood if that widget malfunctioned, should I keep making widgets?
ken also has a problem with "cause and effect" it appears.
Let's stop drilling until we develop the "technology to deal with eruptions like this."
Why would we develop it, if we aren't going to need it? And how will we know it'll work?
Every disaster like this is a prototype.- one of a kind.Every one, thus far, has also been a chain-reaction of human error (or malevolence)
Ken's solution-back to the stone age?
 
So you're saying the reason the tech hasn't developed is because there isn't a history of spills like this? That a need hasn't been shown?
 
rwguinn, you're intentionally going all the way in the opposite extreme in your responses to thaiboxerken. The reality is that drilling companies really aren't suitably prepared for the type of problems that caused the current spill when they get beyond a certain depth (I think I recall a quote on the radio being beyond a couple thousand feet). The blowout preventers are not as reliable as stated (link, related link), and we already know that regulations that are meant to control circumstances that can be controlled to mitigate risk were not being followed properly, and as such the assumed risk that one would have been working from the day prior to the BP disaster is now known to be demonstrably false (or artificial... choose your adjective, the point is "more risky than previously thought").

As such, it makes sense to not engage in an activity where the risk factor is now very probably higher until an assessment can be made as to the level of safety conditions need to be in place to help avoid repeats of the current disaster. That's not saying that all drilling needs to stop, but drilling past the threshold qualifying as "deep water" (which I believe is 500 ft in most locations) wasn't unreasonable. Perhaps there is a lower demonstrable risk factor for drilling under, say, 2000 feet; however, that would be an argument for a more targeted moratorium and that I would say I'm comfortable with as an argument. That doesn't negate the sense in having a moratorium for the drilling at the depth the Horizon was at, though, since we have learned (regrettably post-hoc) that our assumptions on the degree of risk were alarmingly skewed.

Can we agree that much?
 
Uhm..no. They developed the safety technology alongside the nuclear production tech.
 
He was dodging. And so are you. You're making an appeal to perfection. It's the difference between knowing why WTC1&2 collapsed on 9/11 and knowing exactly which columns were overstressed.

I agree he was dodging. And the particular method he used to dodge was to claim that investigations weren't complete and that he didn't know the cause of the disaster. Since you claim that the cause is completely known, then wasn't Hayward lying? Or perhaps you're overstating the matter.

Congress too has ongoing investigations into the disaster. These investigations have turned up, among other things, the fact that contingency plans submitted by BP and most other oil companies were bogus.

So again, putting a hold on permits that were granted based on these bogus contingency plans sounds like a good idea.

You have accused me of dodging. What am I dodging?
 
ken also has a problem with "cause and effect" it appears.
Let's stop drilling until we develop the "technology to deal with eruptions like this."
Why would we develop it, if we aren't going to need it? And how will we know it'll work?
Every disaster like this is a prototype.- one of a kind.Every one, thus far, has also been a chain-reaction of human error (or malevolence)
Ken's solution-back to the stone age?

Are you claiming this is the first blow-out in a Gulf of Mexico drilling project?

Even if the causes were different, we should have already known that we have no viable contingency plans for dealing with a blow-out.
 
You're absolutely right. We cant "guarantee the safety on other rigs operating in the Gulf."
We also can't guarantee the safety of aircraft, automobiles, dish washers, surgery, food, water supplies, or crossing the street, even with the "walk" light.

Rubbish. Remember the good judge's analogy? We do in fact ground airplanes when there is a suspected safety issue. We do recall automobiles with a known safety issue.

Other than denying a role for any sort of safety regulations, your argument is merely a slippery slope argument.
 
rwguinn, you're intentionally going all the way in the opposite extreme in your responses to thaiboxerken. The reality is that drilling companies really aren't suitably prepared for the type of problems that caused the current spill when they get beyond a certain depth (I think I recall a quote on the radio being beyond a couple thousand feet). The blowout preventers are not as reliable as stated (link, related link), and we already know that regulations that are meant to control circumstances that can be controlled to mitigate risk were not being followed properly, and as such the assumed risk that one would have been working from the day prior to the BP disaster is now known to be demonstrably false (or artificial... choose your adjective, the point is "more risky than previously thought").

As such, it makes sense to not engage in an activity where the risk factor is now very probably higher until an assessment can be made as to the level of safety conditions need to be in place to help avoid repeats of the current disaster. That's not saying that all drilling needs to stop, but drilling past the threshold qualifying as "deep water" (which I believe is 500 ft in most locations) wasn't unreasonable. Perhaps there is a lower demonstrable risk factor for drilling under, say, 2000 feet; however, that would be an argument for a more targeted moratorium and that I would say I'm comfortable with as an argument. That doesn't negate the sense in having a moratorium for the drilling at the depth the Horizon was at, though, since we have learned (regrettably post-hoc) that our assumptions on the degree of risk were alarmingly skewed.

Can we agree that much?

QFT.
 
Let's stop drilling until we develop the "technology to deal with eruptions like this."
Why would we develop it, if we aren't going to need it? And how will we know it'll work?

It is desireable to extract the oil. It is also prohibitively dangerous to extract the oil until the tech is in place to deal with a disaster like this.

Thus, the motivation to develop the tech is there.

We now know what doesn't work. We have some ideas what will work.

We do not have the physical assets in place yet. There should, for instance, be enough Costner centrifuges in place to scoop it all up.

Until that happens, stop the drills.
 

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