Juan williams fired from NPR

[Brainster]

NPR confirms it was because of the Fox:

Instead, this latest incident with Williams centers around a collision of values: NPR's values emphasizing fact-based, objective journalism versus the tendency in some parts of the news media, notably Fox News, to promote only one side of the ideological spectrum.

The sad thing is that she probably believes that tripe about NPR not being biased.

 

[Unabogie]

NPR confirms it was because of the Fox:



The sad thing is that she probably believes that tripe about NPR not being biased.

It's not about being biased towards one side or the other. The rules of NPR forbid going on TV and engaging in "punditry". That he was allowed to keep his job all these years is a testament to how much leeway they gave him.

 

[Beerina]

Perhaps he asked them, first, years ago?

 

[AlBell]

Humans have that reaction sometimes. But while it's an understandable and common reaction, it's still a bigoted reaction.

When did you discover you had conscious control over the fight/flight chemical dump?

Of course you do have a reasonable amount of conscious control of ensuing behavior, but that doesn't address the reaction.

 

[A'isha]

When did you discover you had conscious control over the fight/flight chemical dump?

Of course you do have a reasonable amount of conscious control of ensuing behavior, but that doesn't address the reaction.

That's my point. Simply having the reaction doesn't make you a bigot, any more than a soldier's feelings of terror and a desire to run away in combat make him a coward. It's what you do with the reaction that matters.

 

[AlBell]

Listen, my house is in southern Dallas-- good luck finding a gas station at 2 AM where there aren't some kids with baggy pants and darker skin. What you describe isn't situational awareness, it's just prejudicial blaming of an entire group for actions not representative of the group. What you're calling situational awareness is based on ignorance and paranoid assumption... pretty much core components of bigotry.

Comments like that beg for background.

Foolhardy? Fits in? Is a law enforcement officer? Is 6'6 weighs 245? Or is a 1 in a million average middle class citizen?

ps. No, I don't need an answer, thanks.

 

[Disbelief]

That's my point. Simply having the reaction doesn't make you a bigot, any more than a soldier's feelings of terror and a desire to run away in combat make him a coward. It's what you do with the reaction that matters.

So how do Juan's comments make him a bigot? He admitted to having the feelings, but apparently does not do anything about them.

 

[A'isha]

So how do Juan's comments make him a bigot? He admitted to having the feelings, but apparently does not do anything about them.

By "doing", I don't mean necessarily putting your views into practice, so to speak. What I meant was that it's a person's reaction to the feelings, not the feelings themselves, that can make them a bigot. And arguing that those feelings are not bigoted at all, but are simply the truth of the world, or a sensibly prudent reaction, or just reality, or otherwise justified in any way, that counts.

Williams saying "if I see people who are in Muslim garb and I think, you know, they are identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I get worried. I get nervous," does not make him a bigot.

Williams going on to say "that's just a reality" and "that's not a bigoted statement" and "you can’t ignore the fact that what has been recently said in court with regard to this is the first drop of blood in a Muslim war on America," though, that's bigotry.

 

[quixotecoyote]

But...but... He went on to say that he knows there are "good Muslisms" too! Doesn't that make it all better?

 

[Piggy]

Based on his subsequent actions -- and this is speculation, but I'd lay a wager on it -- it seems to me that JW had already decided that the green was greener at FOX and just stopped worrying about getting sacked from NPR.

 

[GreNME]

Comments like that beg for background.

Which I gave.

Foolhardy? Fits in? Is a law enforcement officer? Is 6'6 weighs 245? Or is a 1 in a million average middle class citizen?

ps. No, I don't need an answer, thanks.

Of course you don't want answers. Ignorance is easier and allows you to continue to advocate bigotry.

 

[Mycroft]

Williams going on to say "that's just a reality" and "that's not a bigoted statement" and "you can’t ignore the fact that what has been recently said in court with regard to this is the first drop of blood in a Muslim war on America," though, that's bigotry.

I don't see that that's any different from the first statement.

A Muslim extremists claims there are other Muslim extremists out there planning to spill more blood. Isn't that something to be aware of and to be afraid of?

 

[Cicero]

But...but... He went on to say that he knows there are "good Muslisms" too! Doesn't that make it all better?

Actually he said:

"But I think there are people who want to somehow remind us all as President Bush did after 9/11, it's not a war against Islam." Juan Williams

NPR didn't fire Nina Totenberg for wishing Gen. Boykin's demise back in 2003.

"I hope he’s not long for this world,” NPR’s Nina Totenberg on WUSA’s Inside Washington TV talk show about Gen. William G. “Jerry” Boykin


After being challenged by fellow panelists asking whether Totenberg wanted to issue a fatwa on the general Nina replied,

“In his job, in his job, please, please, in his job.”


Doesn't that make it all better? Considering Nina is still employed, NPR's strict standards about what their news folks can say on TV magically became quit flexible when the offender's remarks targeted a Christian.

 

[A'isha]

A Muslim extremists claims there are other Muslim extremists out there planning to spill more blood. Isn't that something to be aware of and to be afraid of?

Saying that violent extremists using Islam as their justification are planning further attacks on us is not a bigoted statement.

Expanding that to say that there is "a Muslim war on America" and that it's "just reality" to be afraid of everyone wearing "Muslim garb", though, is bigotry. Because it treats the vast majority of Muslims who aren't violent extremists plotting attacks on us the same as the small minority that are.

 

[A'isha]

Doesn't that make it all better? Considering Nina is still employed, NPR's strict standards about what their news folks can say on TV magically became quit flexible when the offender's remarks targeted a Christian.

There's also the tiny wee difference that Totenberg was calling for the removal of a specific individual from his job, while Williams was associating an entire religion of 1.6 billion people with terrorism.

And another tiny difference that the NPR ombudsman said that NPR journalists acting as pundits in that fashion would be considered unacceptable, saying "NPR may need to reinforce with its journalists that they have a choice between outside punditry or inside reporting. "

In other words, Totenberg said something unacceptable on a non-NPR show. NPR told everyone there to not do that. Seven years after this warning, Williams says something unacceptable on a non-NPR show. He gets fired.

How is this inconsistent and singling him out?

 

[Ziggurat]

But...but... He went on to say that he knows there are "good Muslisms" too! Doesn't that make it all better?

No it doesn't. Because the proper forms weren't followed.

There are many ironies involved here, including both the fact that Williams was arguing that O'Reilly should draw an explicit distinction between radicals and ordinary muslims, and that Williams pointed out that political correctness was leading to a denial of reality.

The reality is that Williams had these very understandable, very human emotional responses, and he confessed to having them. But it's not OK to tell the truth. It must be cloaked in the appropriate PC forms, it must come with the correct disclaimers. The point of such forms is not to actually clarify the truth, but to show obedience to the ideology. And that, ultimately, is what cost him his job: he blasphemed.

 

[Cicero]

There's also the tiny wee difference that Totenberg was calling for the removal of a specific individual from his job, while Williams was associating an entire religion of 1.6 billion people with terrorism.

Correction. Nina was calling for Gen. Boykin's death. When challenged, she changed that to wanting him fired. If you saw the entire exchange with O'Reilly, Juan in no way condemned all Muslims as terrorists. In fact, he went out of his way to explain to O'Reilly that would be as bad as blaming all Christians for Tim McVeigh's actions.

And another tiny difference that the NPR ombudsman said that NPR journalists acting as pundits in that fashion would be considered unacceptable, saying "NPR may need to reinforce with its journalists that they have a choice between outside punditry or inside reporting.


In other words, Totenberg said something unacceptable on a non-NPR show. NPR told everyone there to not do that. Seven years after this warning, Williams says something unacceptable on a non-NPR show. He gets fired.

How is this inconsistent and singling him out?

NPR never publically (or for all we know, not even privately) reprimanded Nina for her outrageous comments. Why? Because NPR'S CEO & VP share her bias. It is only when the comments are in conflict with NPR's political correctness and liberal ideology does the offender receive a pink slip. If Juan was not a FOX News contributor, his liberal credentials would not be in doubt by NPR and he would still be employed at NPR.

 

[quixotecoyote]

No it doesn't. Because the proper forms weren't followed.

There are many ironies involved here, including both the fact that Williams was arguing that O'Reilly should draw an explicit distinction between radicals and ordinary muslims, and that Williams pointed out that political correctness was leading to a denial of reality.

The reality is that Williams had these very understandable, very human emotional responses, and he confessed to having them. But it's not OK to tell the truth. It must be cloaked in the appropriate PC forms, it must come with the correct disclaimers. The point of such forms is not to actually clarify the truth, but to show obedience to the ideology. And that, ultimately, is what cost him his job: he blasphemed.

Oh god Zig! Protect me from the evil religious ideology that says claiming 'its not bigoted to say muslims are scary' is bad! I don't want the PC police to take my children!

 

[davefoc]

I think this was a very unfortunate act by NPR.

It is just not bigotry to admit that one has fears of a particular ethnic group. In fact, it probably contributes to the gradual reduction in ethnic tension when people openly discuss their concerns.

Now NPR has played into the Fox News stereotype of them. That was just plain stupid.

The anti-Muslim crap that comes out of the mouths of the Fox news folks is horrible. From my perspective they want to redefine what I think it is to be an American by undermining one of the most important ideals of the American system, the fair treatment of all regardless of ethnicity.

But now NPR has blatantly undermined another ideal of the American system, the right to openly discuss important issues. And there are few more important discussions than how the connections that we make instinctively as human beings based on limited evidence can be the source ethnic divisiveness. NPR's approach is to say nothing and hope it will just go away. That might be great in some fantasy land but in the real world that involves real people openly discussing what can be our irrational distrust of each other is the only way that ethnic tensions can be reduced.

 

[A'isha]

Correction. Nina was calling for Gen. Boykin's death. When challenged, she changed that to wanting him fired.

She didn't change, she added.

If you saw the entire exchange with O'Reilly, Juan in no way condemned all Muslims as terrorists. In fact, he went out of his way to explain to O'Reilly that would be as bad as blaming all Christians for Tim McVeigh's actions.

Except later he went back on that.

NPR never publically (or for all we know, not even privately) reprimanded Nina for her outrageous comments.

Other than, you know, their ombudsman making a public statement on the NPR website that NPR journalists are not to do that and that they may need to choose between punditry and working for NPR.

Why? Because NPR'S CEO & VP share her bias. It is only when the comments are in conflict with NPR's political correctness and liberal ideology does the offender receive a pink slip. If Juan was not a FOX News contributor, his liberal credentials would not be in doubt by NPR and he would still be employed at NPR.

Yes, that's why Williams was fired as soon as he dared go on Fox, instead of him appearing on a variety of Fox News programs over the past several years without any comment from NPR and only getting fired after he said some rather unfortunate things on air despite being warned not to do that sort of thing years before.

Oh, wait...