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JREF vs "The Truth Movement".

I think truthers are being disappeared. Just not by the powers that be. I would wager that realizing 99.999% of the people (out of the relatively few that actually know about truthers) can see through truther BS has a lot to do with it.
 
CT's (no matter about what) seem to have an active shelf life of about a decade. After that they tail off rapidly as any participant with at least a modest capacity to think figures it out and the dumb ones move on to the next latest anti-establishment fad. So after the 10-year mark what is left are the hard-core fundamentalists and zealots who will never get it.
 
Mark F said:
CT's (no matter about what) seem to have an active shelf life of about a decade. After that they tail off rapidly as any participant with at least a modest capacity to think figures it out and the dumb ones move on to the next latest anti-establishment fad. So after the 10-year mark what is left are the hard-core fundamentalists and zealots who will never get it.
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Good summary. I'm not sure it is as much as ten years - but the division into "learners" and "cannot learns" ("losers" maybe?) is spot on.

And it complements those two hypotheses I have posted on a couple of occasions. :rolleyes:

1) Most truthers cannot think;
2) That is why most of them became truthers.

Unable to think through any complicated problem they develop a lifetime habit of blaming others and "authority" AKA Government is a safe target - most people will agree with you if you blame Government.

So the habit of "blame whenever I cannot think" was long established before 9/11 came along as the latest fashionably acceptable conspiracy.

And therein lies the fundamental flaw of much debunker posting. It targets the wrong problem. The problem is cannot think - the 9/11 topic is merely a symptom. And no amount of logical explanation will change anything for two principle reasons:
A) They don't understand logical reasoning - That is a sub-set of their "cannot think"; AND
B) The 9/11 issue is the wrong target. Should be their limited thinking skill. Cannot change that in a forum - even if MA rules didn't make it difficult. :rolleyes:


Meanwhile few of those remaining 9/11 active on forums are genuine truthers - their motivation more obviously seen as jerking the chains of anyone who will stroke their ego or give them the attention they crave. With rare exceptions the word is not "truther" although the first two letters "tr..." are correct.

I only accept one person who is currently active on forums as a genuine truther.
 
Generally, CTers are among those people who don't have the ability to learn, they cannot understand the science or the mathematics, i.e....

"I can't understand therefore no-one else can either"


...so they attack what they don't understand.
 
smartcooky said:
Generally, CTers are among those people who don't have the ability to learn, they cannot understand the science or the mathematics, i.e....

"I can't understand therefore no-one else can either"


...so they attack what they don't understand.
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Yes. A different perspective but the same issue. Since "thinking" is the necessary support for "understanding".

So "I can't think therefore no-one else can either" is equally valid.
 
The Truth Movement was largely doomed the moment Barack Obama won the presidential election of 2008. Up till then, the large majority of Truthers were fringe lefties, hoping that this largely risk-free Hail Mary pass would upend the Bush/Cheney administration.

The election took care of that goal, and shortly afterwards, the Van Jones fiasco revealed that perhaps 9-11 Trutherism wasn't so risk-free any more.

The few remaining Truthers are libertarian/survivalist types like Alex Jones/Luke Rudkowski, the con artists like Gage and Griffin, or the pathetic souls who've poured so much time and effort into the movement that they literally have no other life left (Jon Gold, Bob McIlvaine).
 
Mark F said:
CT's (no matter about what) seem to have an active shelf life of about a decade. After that they tail off rapidly as any participant with at least a modest capacity to think figures it out and the dumb ones move on to the next latest anti-establishment fad. So after the 10-year mark what is left are the hard-core fundamentalists and zealots who will never get it.
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Let us not forget the hucksters that fan the flames of TRUTH to separate the loon from his money. Cough...Gage...cough cough.
 
Brainster said:
The few remaining Truthers are libertarian/survivalist types like Alex Jones/Luke Rudkowski, the con artists like Gage and Griffin, or the pathetic souls who've poured so much time and effort into the movement that they literally have no other life left (Jon Gold, Bob McIlvaine).
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Good categorisation!

I would just add that there are also around 1000 cognitively dissonant sycophants who donate to these guys or share their stories.
 
ozeco41 said:
Metabunk sets serious standards for "on topic" and "reasoning" and the technical material is reasonable whilst staying within the middle range. There as here the "high order fatal errors" seem to be overlooked.
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Well, the discussion is certainly active there. I saw a lot of familiar names, with some reasoned posts from all sides. It's like a more civil version of jref.

What appears here in this thread suggests a general hope that intelligent, educated people are not holding a middle ground of skepticism without voicing it or posting it non-stop on internet forums.

It's a fallacy to think that a lot of people who are skeptical about the official story belong to the "Truth Movement" or post on jref or any other forum for that matter.
 
RedIbis said:
Well, the discussion is certainly active there. I saw a lot of familiar names, with some reasoned posts from all sides. It's like a more civil version of jref.
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Yep, you can't post lies about 911 there. Most "skeptical about the official story junkies", would be unable to post there, they have nothing to offer on topic. The lot of "skeptical about the official story people" have no evidence to support their skepticism, and their ideas would be debunked there, with little effort. It seems the lot of "skeptical about the official story people" have the same evidence to support their "skepticism" as the "official 911 truth movement", ZERO.
Not more civil, lies like 911 truth have are debunked there, not supported with more lies. You can't post fantasy, you have to debunk it there.
Thus, "skeptical about the official story people" can't post the lies they support in the name of skepticism, they have to debunk them.

RedIbis said:
What appears here in this thread suggests a general hope that intelligent, educated people are not holding a middle ground of skepticism without voicing it or posting it non-stop on internet forums.
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Can we go swimming or do we have to non-stop it? Mow the lawn? Badminton? Soccer?

There is no middle of the road conclusion on an event. You can't debate the score of the Super Bowl. Educated people unable to figure out 911, are no longer educated, and are thus ignorant on 911. Are there middle ground for Bigfoot, Santa, and Moon Hoax? Only ignorance.

The educated truthers, come to JREF and turn into non-truthers, smart people who do use logic and critical thinking skills, and they do this in a few posts. They come to JREF with BS from 911 truth they have found, and then learn the claims are lies - they drop the fantasy and understand 911 because they have the tools to be "educated" people. The time to figure out 911 is minutes given the facts - the people who hold the record for figuring out 911 are Flight 93 Passengers who took action, real action on 911 - the opposite are 911 truth followers and "skeptical about the official story people", unable to figure out 911 given the answers and 13 years.

RedIbis said:
It's a fallacy to think that a lot of people who are skeptical about the official story belong to the "Truth Movement" or post on jref or any other forum for that matter.
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There is no truth movement. It turns out people who think they are skeptical about 911, not skepticism, ignorance.

Due to ignorance, fake skeptics create anomalies and believe in fantasy of CD, or some inside job nonsense. These fake skeptics become paranoid of those who debunk them, and can't let it go.

Is there a truth movement? Where is the headquarters? The sad thing about 911 truth believers who think they are not in 911 truth, only skeptics, can't give a rational explanation of what is wrong with "the official story". They can't explain their skepticism because it is not skepticism it is ignorance. So deep into the inside job nonsense, they have no clue they are in the 911 truth movement. Does 911 truth exist? More like a club for fake claims and anti-government claptrap. What is the official story? You know there is woo to follow with you find someone saying, "official story".
 
jaydeehess said:
The subject is discussed on other internet forums. JREF seems to hold particular fascination for the "Truth" movement though.
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I think a lot of that just has to do with the forum's publicity and size. Little more than that. In the grand scheme of things, I see this just continuing as a zombie for decades to come... just like the Kennedy conspiracies, you have individuals who spend their lives perpetuating it on pointless details whilst any reasoned debate on it fades off.

The protests might get smaller and smaller... you might see discussions dissipate, sure, but having said that, I don't see the CT dying off completely. Other famous [modern] CT's have lasted for more than 50 years already in spite of some of the silliness in them

Besides that... I've been reading the CT's since 2008 and it's one of the main topics that interested me in joining here. I've heard everything I think there is to hear and don't have a lot of interest left in it... I'm going to use my time for other things
 
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When confronted with something like 911, Apollo etc, your average person might try to understand the science/mathematics involved. If they cant, they might do some research to educate themselves, but if they still can't understand, then they usually accept that it is something beyond their experience, educational level or level of intelligence to understand. They move on.

When confronted with something like 911, Apollo etc, a Conspiracy Theorist tries to understand the science/mathematics involved. If they can't, they might do some research to educate themselves, but if they still can't understand, they refuse to accept that it is something beyond their experience, educational level or intelligence to understand, because they vastly overrate themselves with regards to those last three attributes. They then attack the premise as false, hoax, fake, or a conspiracy. They are unable to move on.

These CTs are easy to spot when debated. Their lack of understanding of science & mathematics becomes clear when they start "gish galloping" or posting large tracts of science stuff cut/pasted directly from websites, often without even understanding what it is that have pasted. That they don't understand it becomes clear when you start asking them questions about what they have posted. Some of them even attack the science itself because they don't understand that either. Apollo was hoaxed because rockets don't work in space because there is no air for the exhaust to push against is a classic example of attacking the science.
 
Grizzly Bear said:
The protests might get smaller and smaller... you might see discussions dissipate, sure, but having said that, I don't see the CT dying off completely.
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No, but it's decaying, and I think it's already well past its half-life.
 
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