Jowenko sticks by his statement. (Audio from yesterday)

[T.A.M.]

Actually, Jowenko has explained that the reason WTC1 & 2 were not brought down by CD was because they came down top down, and this is not how it is done. This is why they are all hopping on the "Atypical" demolition bandwagon now. Heaven forbid they should just admit they came down the way NIST has said they did.

TAM

 

[parmanides]

hmm, why would I ever be suspicious of a GOVERNMENT report devised to asses the details of a potential GOVERNMENT sponsored terrorist act??

Sorry guys, we could argue this one for ever - if you review my posts, all I really wanted to do was highlight Jowenko's unique and precious influence on the debate - irrespective of government reports and conditioned opinions

I hope you found at least some things to chew on, thanks and bye

 

[CHF]

I don't many demolition experts will jump to the defence of a theory that says on 9/11 the guv executed two demolitions that looked, sounded and behaved nothing at all like demolitions, thus indicating that they were special demolitions.

When something isn't at all like a demolition....it probably isn't one. Radical concept, I know.

 

[T.A.M.]

Why does the CT rational automatically think that all govt agencies will do what ever it takes to protect the current administration? This is thinking at a grade 3 level of logic and rational. There were hundreds of engineers and scientists that contribute to the NIST reports. Many of them had nil to no affiliation with the Republican party or the BUSH admin, yet you think it is quite simply...

NIST = GOVT, so NIST is covering up...man that is juvenile...and paranoid beyond belief.

TAM

 

[pomeroo]

[=parmanides;2374305]hmm, why would I ever be suspicious of a GOVERNMENT report devised to asses the details of a potentialGOVERNMENT sponsored terrorist act??

Sorry guys, we could argue this one for ever - if you review my posts, all I really wanted to do was highlight Jowenko's unique and precious influence on the debate - irrespective of government reports and conditioned opinions

I hope you found at least some things to chew on, thanks and bye

Yes, it is quite natural and reasonable to be suspicious of an apolitical agency whose function is to determine why structures fail. Their connection to the shadow army that controls EVERYTHING is obvious.

Jowenko's wrong-headed guess is "precious" because it supports your fantasies.

I'm afraid I found little to chew on, but much to gag on.

 

[Panoply_Prefect]

Why does the CT rational automatically think that all govt agencies will do what ever it takes to protect the current administration? This is thinking at a grade 3 level of logic and rational. There were hundreds of engineers and scientists that contribute to the NIST reports. Many of them had nil to no affiliation with the Republican party or the BUSH admin, yet you think it is quite simply...

NIST = GOVT, so NIST is covering up...man that is juvenile...and paranoid beyond belief.

TAM

Actually this is one of the things I thought the BBC documentary contributed most with. If you read the name of a military airline pilot or a scientist on the net, its very easy starting to accuse them for being "in on it" or "neocon" or "bought". However if you get to see the person behind the name tag its a totally different story - seeing the C-130 pilot, O'Brien, in the living, the coroner, Miller, and that scientist doing the Pentagon simulations, Hoffmann - suddenly they are not just "lieutenant colonel" (obvious government secret agent), but next-door neighbour, father-of-two, O'Brien (I wonder if Fetzer would be as feisty towards O'Brien had he been face to face with him...). BBC did what should be considered 101 - they left the internet and went into the real world and talked to the sources.

Its very, very easy sitting behind a keyboard in your own room, dissemniating accusations, playing detective, investigator or scientist. Its much harder to do it face-to-face. Me thinks it would have done the world a lot of good if all truthers had to actually face those they accuse, before posting on Youtube, Google and in the LC forums...

Cheers,
SLOB

 

[Miragememories]

Actually this is one of the things I thought the BBC documentary contributed most with. If you read the name of a military airline pilot or a scientist on the net, its very easy starting to accuse them for being "in on it" or "neocon" or "bought". However if you get to see the person behind the name tag its a totally different story - seeing the C-130 pilot, O'Brien, in the living, the coroner, Miller, and that scientist doing the Pentagon simulations, Hoffmann - suddenly they are not just "lieutenant colonel" (obvious government secret agent), but next-door neighbour, father-of-two, O'Brien (I wonder if Fetzer would be as feisty towards O'Brien had he been face to face with him...). BBC did what should be considered 101 - they left the internet and went into the real world and talked to the sources.

Its very, very easy sitting behind a keyboard in your own room, dissemniating accusations, playing detective, investigator or scientist. Its much harder to do it face-to-face. Me thinks it would have done the world a lot of good if all truthers had to actually face those they accuse, before posting on Youtube, Google and in the LC forums...

Cheers,
SLOB

Excellent point SLOB

It's unfortunate that all the people in LC and JREF are so comfortably hidden behind aliases and computer screens. We are real people with families and want to live out our lives like everyone else.

The damn internet and one-dimensional text communication makes it so easy to turn us into adversaries.

Too bad it's so hard to drop our guards and have truly open communication without fear of being bashed in the process.

MM

 

[beachnut]

Excellent point SLOB

It's unfortunate that all the people in LC and JREF are so comfortably hidden behind aliases and computer screens. We are real people with families and want to live out our lives like everyone else.

The damn internet and one-dimensional text communication makes it so easy to turn us into adversaries.

Too bad it's so hard to drop our guards and have truly open communication without fear of being bashed in the process.

MM

Yes as we see the guys telling the truth shine through and those telling lies like Fetzer look like nuts.

 

[pomeroo]

[=Miragememories;2374739]Excellent point SLOB

It's unfortunate that all the people in LC and JREF are so comfortably hidden behind aliases and computer screens. We are real people with families and want to live out our lives like everyone else.

The damn internet and one-dimensional text communication makes it so easy to turn us into adversaries.

Too bad it's so hard to drop our guards and have truly open communication without fear of being bashed in the process.

MM

Now, then--about that memory of Dick Cheney...

 

[T.A.M.]

Excellent point SLOB

It's unfortunate that all the people in LC and JREF are so comfortably hidden behind aliases and computer screens. We are real people with families and want to live out our lives like everyone else.

The damn internet and one-dimensional text communication makes it so easy to turn us into adversaries.

Too bad it's so hard to drop our guards and have truly open communication without fear of being bashed in the process.

MM

You try living by your own words there MM, and I can guarantee you I am an honorable enough fellow to do the same.

TAM

 

[Miragememories]

Yes as we see the guys telling the truth shine through and those telling lies like Fetzer look like nuts.

I hate to agree about Fetzer but he has lost it.

I hate to label people as liars and I don't see him as such but he has definitely drifted off the path.

MM

 

[Miragememories]

Now, then--about that memory of Dick Cheney...

lol..damn if I only had a tape of that.

Sorry, pure fiction, but I was merely poking at The Doc in his attributing comments to Jowenko without source...something we are constently acused of.

MM

 

[Miragememories]

You try living by your own words there MM, and I can guarantee you I am an honorable enough fellow to do the same.

TAM

I can assure you T.A.M. "cut me and I will bleed."

Bully me and it's another matter.

We are all hiding alias personas and while it can be fun it ignores the fact that we are all real people living in the real world.

I love my family as much as I'm sure you love yours and I am well aware that the subject that we wrestle over is an ugly thing...wish it wasn't so..I would rather tussle over sports teams or favourite movies.

May you prove me an idiot...I wish it so in spite of my convistions.

MM

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

BTW he also explains (from an insiders position) that his co-professionals in the in the demolition field would have their careers ruined if they were to be as brave as him in calling it like they see it - explains alot

That's like a Catholic priest saying that pedophilia/homosexuality is acceptable to God, but no other Catholic priest will come forward, because they fear having their "careers" ruined, then pointing to all the priests who admit to such acts and have had their "careers" ruined as proof.

I believe that's called "affirming the consequent", and it's a logical fallacy.

 

[gumboot]

May you prove me an idiot...I wish it so in spite of my convistions.

MM

You hear this argument a lot from those that support alternative theories for 9/11...

"I wish it wasn't true, I don't want it to be true..." blah blah.

I don't buy it for one second. There is SO MUCH evidence supporting the accepted account, and SO LITTLE supporting ANY alternative theory, that one could only support the alternatives by WILLINGLY ignoring evidence. Don't give me that "I wish it so" BS. You're a CTer. You CHOOSE to be a CTer in defiance of reality.

-Gumboot

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

The official "we know more about controlled demolition than someone who does it for a living" thread.

Yay.

Dr. Shyam Sunder, of the National Institutes of Standards and Technology (NIST), which investigated the collapse of WTC 7, is quoted in Popular Mechanics (9/11: Debunking the Myths, March, 2005) as saying: "There was no firefighting in WTC 7."

The FEMA report on the collapses, from May, 2002, also says about the WTC 7 collapse: "no manual firefighting operations were taken by FDNY."

That must be why Silverstein had to "pull" the firefighters out.

This is true, as far as I can tell; there were no firefighting operations in/at/on WTC7. No one here is denying that.

There were, however, rescue operations in and around the building.

 

[T.A.M.]

As well, I believe even though there was no actual firefighting going on, that the FDNY did set up a perimeter about the building. I believe it was the contingent of firefighters along this perimeter that he was referring to.

TAM

 

[twinstead]

As well, I believe even though there was no actual firefighting going on, that the FDNY did set up a perimeter about the building. I believe it was the contingent of firefighters along this perimeter that he was referring to.

In fact, I'll go further and say that to anybody with half a brain these are the firefighters he was referring to.

 

[beachnut]

hmm, why would I ever be suspicious of a GOVERNMENT report devised to asses the details of a potential GOVERNMENT sponsored terrorist act??

Sorry guys, we could argue this one for ever - if you review my posts, all I really wanted to do was highlight Jowenko's unique and precious influence on the debate - irrespective of government reports and conditioned opinions

I hope you found at least some things to chew on, thanks and bye

I would be very suspicious of your posts after you think this:

This is the truth (above and beyond all the nonsense that gets spoken) of high-level freemasonry and secret societies.

It appears you may be kind of nutty. You believe in secret societies who can make us all act or treat us like cattle. Yet you display the knowledge of logic and reasoning of most CTers who act like lemmings in a cult.

You now make a veiled attempt to tie NIST to some secret organization in the government. Some groups that make sure all groups in the Goobermint are in line with some big CT. Yet the FBI fights the CIA, they fight the OMB, etc, etc, etc… Organizations in the government would turn each other in on such a CT as 9/11 truth movement dolts tell. These government entities have more mental prowess then you will ever show and would be able to turn in others who would do us harm.

Maybe you are like the Fortiers and can not talk to the authorities with you evidence to prove 9/11 was an inside job. I suggest you get off drugs, or what ever is keeping you from being able to go to the authorities. Clean up your act, go to the authorities ASAP and save us all with you rock solid evidence of the inside job that you know 9/11 was.

When can we expect the liberation you seek to provide us?

 

[Freddy]

I refer to my last post. If you have a context (and the emotional investment that that entails), a long drawn out investigations can easily be bent to conform to your own preconceptions. Sometimes (not always) the immediate impression is just as valuable as the rabbithole of self deception that a longer 'scientific' investigation entails.

Wow, I never realized that science was just a "rabbit hole of self deception." I guess I'm going to have to become a troofer now (and now that I think about it, a creationist as well).

By the way, you are well named (though poorly spelled), since Parmenides was a Greek philosopher who denied that there was any such thing as change or motion, and that there is really only one thing that exists (appropriately called "the One"). You carry on the proud tradition of arguing the absolutely ridiculous. Well, not quite, since you haven't technically offered any arguments. But hey, the spirit is the same.