John Stossel Goes After PETA Tonight...

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The current population is at equilibrium with their ecosystem.
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One can say that exact same vague sentence about any population.


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Management of the Kodiak brown bear in Alaska has been very successful at maintaining the vitality and population density of this second-largest land predator.
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Think about this: why do you even have to utter the word "management"? That right there says that they ARE endangered.


Their numbers are reduced, and their range is GREATLY reduced.

Alaska, which you speak of, has the largest population. Outside Alaska, it is a different story. The population is listed as threatened. Scattered small populations in other areas, such as in Europe, are endangered, with sometimes only a few individuals remaining.

Fewer than 1,000 animals live in the lower 48 U.S. states, mainly around Yellowstone and Glacier national parks.
 
Whodini said:
Kodiak said: "The current population is at equilibrium with their ecosystem."

One can say that exact same vague sentence about any population.
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Really, can you say that about africanized bees, the cane toad, the dodo, the white rhino, the gaint panda?


Whodini said:
Kodiak said: "Management of the Kodiak brown bear in Alaska has been very successful at maintaining the vitality and population density of this second-largest land predator."


Think about this: why do you even have to utter the word "management"? That right there says that they ARE endangered.

Their numbers are reduced, and their range is GREATLY reduced.

Alaska, which you speak of, has the largest population. Outside Alaska, it is a different story. The population is listed as threatened. Scattered small populations in other areas, such as in Europe, are endangered, with sometimes only a few individuals remaining.

Fewer than 1,000 animals live in the lower 48 U.S. states, mainly around Yellowstone and Glacier national parks.
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The word "management" means exacly that. Human assisted population control, which includes harvesting (AKA bringing them to "room temperature"), has worked well for the Kodiak bear, as well as other species.

FYI, the brown bears in Europe and the grizzly's in the lower 48 are not Kodiak bears...

Kodiak bear conservation website

From the website:

"Kodiak bears, the largest bears in the world, are a unique subspecies of the brown or grizzly bear, having been isolated from other bears for some 12,000 years. The Kodiak brown bear represents a wildlife “image” known throughout the world.

The population of brown bears on the Kodiak archipelago is very healthy and stable-to-increasing in most areas. The total population is estimated at 2,800-3,000 independent bears, with the average density estimated at 265 per 1000 square kilometers on Kodiak Island and 142 per 1,000 square kilometers on the northern islands of the archipelago."
 
Yeah these PETA folks really chap my ass (pun intended).

It is very unfortunate as they really did some very good work in the beginning. Before they came along there really was some extremely cruel and frivolous animal testing going on especially in the cosmetics industry. Seeing how much hair spray one can spray into a cat’s eyes before it goes blind is pretty much over the top.

And even in legitimate research there was a certain amount of callousness as the fact that testing on animals was such an accepted procedure many became a bit jaded over the whole process and there was a lot of unnecessary cruelty with experiments where data could have been acquired in a less intrusive manner.

But now they have gone waaaaay off of the deep end. Oh no, don’t eat meat. Those canine teeth in your head are by accident. Right.

What really gets my goat (pun intended) is that I’ll bet everyone these do-gooders lives within a couple of miles of some kid that is going hungry.

I wonder how many well-deserving kids we could put through college with the amount of money these guys spend on this tripe. While I wholly support the elimination of any unnecessary cruelty it is really appalling to watch a legion of overpaid fat-cats get themselves worked up into a tizzy over the most frivolous aspects of this movement.

Watching Pamela Anderson, who could probably feed a small Central American nation for a year on what she has spent on breast augmentation alone, get all worked up over someone wearing a fur and not have a single word to say about the staggering human misery that millions of children are forced to endure every single day is enough to make me want to vomit.

Let’s not waste our time trying to improve the lot of the starving masses, crippled with dysentery, oppressed by sadistic dictators or slaughtered by the truckloads for their political beliefs in all of those far away places with funny sounding names. Oh no, let’s stick to real issues and form a protest with Hollywood’s elite to force the kennel where I board my beloved Fifi while I’m vacationing in the Caribbean to install air-conditioning.

And you know damn well that it is almost impossible for any of these people to not have a loved-one somewhere that is alive today due to research that involved some sort of animal testing.

The next time one these fruitcakes has a seriously ill child I wonder how many of these hypocrites will reject treatment based on the fact that it was developed using animal testing?

Somebody needs to clue these guys in and remind them that human beings are animals also. Instead of whacking John Stossel we need to get a few Pro-wrestlers to slap these morons up side the head of few times until they can get their priorities straight.
 
Blue Monk said:
Somebody needs to clue these guys in and remind them that human beings are animals also. Instead of whacking John Stossel we need to get a few Pro-wrestlers to slap these morons up side the head of few times until they can get their priorities straight.
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Ain't gonna happen.

These people have decided they are part of some sort of "elite," which is kinder, gentler, more deserving of the blessings of this world.

Which, of course, is the biggest load of bull$hit I've heard in a long time. Because quite frankly, if any of them were kind, gentle, or deserving of anything, this would not be an issue, particularly in a nation which has the highest child mortality rate in the developed world.

Frankly, it's too bad PETA has so little to offer the world at large. For all the star power and money they have, they have really accomplished very little, save to display themselves as a bunch of whining Luddites without a clue.

And frankly, the sight of Pamela Anderson, regardless of the size of her tits, is enough to make me vomit.
 
Wow!!

Jon_in_London:

Hear! Hear!!

. . . er . . . maybe . . . Read! Read!

Also in the Uk, they actually attack scientists who work in labs where they work on animals.
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Absolutely! Saw it when in Brissssstol some time ago!

I wish I had stolen a poster of a PETA demonstration with the caption:

"This Protest Made Possible by Advances in Medicine from Animal Testing"

Ascends soapbox. . . .

What the hell do these people think? A lab rat is expensive. Do scientist just have nothing better to do--"Hey, Earl, let's squish Squeaky!!"

I recall a lecture from a representative of the British Home Office--methinks--that oversees animal testing. He talked about the infamous "Dray test" which is probably misspell'd but refers to testing cosmetics in the eyes of rabbits or not terribly cute orphans [Stop it!--Ed.]

WHY WOULD A [No shouting!--Ed.] a company design a cosmetic, or shampoo that could burn a customer's eyes out!!

"Damn, Cletus, we just finished the advertisements and the packaging and it looks like the Tammy Faye Line burns a hole right through the brain!! Ironic that, though."

--J.D.

Or as a friend of me sis responded to a demonstrator who asked, "Do you know how many minks died to make that coat?!!"

"Do you know how many losers I had to ◊◊◊◊ to get it?"
 
Doctor X said:
Or as a friend of me sis responded to a demonstrator who asked, "Do you know how many minks died to make that coat?!!"
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All of them.

What, do you think we'd make a coat out of live minks?
 
BWA!HA!HA!HA!

I have often wanted to attend a PETA rally and start a debate on animal research. I would start to sound convinced and appear to take their side. I would then declare that I would immediately cease my research and free my animals.

Then, I would pull out a Petri dish, open it, and start waving my hands over it in their direction shouting, "FREE!!! BE FREE!!"

--J.D.
 
I never thought about it but half of the animals they want to save would eat them in a hearbeat if they had the chance.


Say......
 
Speaking of highly dense populations (pun intended)

Population of a not-so-rare bird, the tree-hugging kookoo, in So. Calif: 1,500 per square mile.
 
Doctor X said:
"Damn, Cletus, we just finished the advertisements and the packaging and it looks like the Tammy Faye Line burns a hole right through the brain!!
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Jim Baker met a prostitue in a hotel and propositioned her $20.00. The prostitute just walked away without giving him an answer. Later Jim and Tammy Faye entered an elevator inside the hotel where they encountered the self same prostitue. "You see" said the prostitute motioning to Tammy Faye, "that's what you get for $20.00".

Or as a friend of me sis responded to a demonstrator who asked, "Do you know how many minks died to make that coat?!!"

"Do you know how many losers I had to f*** to get it?"
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:D
 
Blue Monk said:
I never thought about it but half of the animals they want to save would eat them in a heartbeat if they had the chance.
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Animal rights folks like to show films of vivisection (sp?). I have always wanted to offer to show footage of wolves eating baby rabbits, killer whales eating seals, lions eating the equivalent of Bambi, fathers devouring their very own offspring while the mother was distracted (infanticide is common in many species). Should we protect baby ducks from coyotes? Somewhere back East, NY maybe, a woman sued her neighbor for legally killing a white tail deer on his own property. The deer were seriously over populated and were causing problems for him.

She testified that she had been traumatized by witnessing the death of the animal. Why is it only tragic when humans kill? If she had seen a mountain lion kill the deer who would she have sued? You know she probably would have. She probably would have sued the county for not stopping the overpopulation. Of course the overpopulation was caused by people like her that outlawed hunting of deer on public property and the many idiots that would feed the deer not understanding that the population of deer would increase until there was not enough food.

IIRC poachers finally thinned out the population through a concerted effort by concentrating in remote areas. It seems that word got out that Fish and Game or who ever held authority would not aggressively seek prosecution. The preferred method by the animal rights lovers (shooting does with darts laced with birth control) was expensive and ineffective. After a few months and a few rifles, problem solved.
 
I remember in St. Paul, Minnesota, USA about a decade ago, some animal rights wackos tried to free wolves from the zoo. They cut a hole in the fence and tried to lure out the wolves with steak. Guess they gave up on saving the cow. Anyway, the wolves refused to leave their enclosure (a sizable, wooded space)
 
RandFan said:

The preferred method by the animal rights lovers (shooting does with darts laced with birth control) was expensive and ineffective. After a few months and a few rifles, problem solved.
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Maybe we could shoot PETA members with darts laced with birth control. I wonder if they have any of those rifles left.

"Hey! The planet's overpopulated with Homo Sapiens. Bend over!....Whaddya mean you don't want to be sterilized? Then we won't have any choice but to eat red meat to survive.....Yeah.....That's what I thought. Left or right cheek?"

I like the Petri dish idea, Dr. X. I wish I had thought of it when I lived in Virginia Beach where PETA's HQ is located.

Do PETA members get flu shots?
 
subgenius said:
Good discussion of the difference between animal welfare and animal rights.
http://www.felinerescue.net/Animal_rights.htm
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From the site
...raising their young, enjoying their native environments
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Oh yes, life in the wild. A beautiful, natural and glorious existence where animals frolic in fields of clover and admire vistas of blue skies and purple mountains, swim in streams and eat berries and nuts.

Problem is it's not true. Oh, I don't mean to suggest that animals are incapable of enjoying life from time to time but "enjoyment" is not the word that should be used to describe animals living in their native environment. No, there is but one word, "survival". The vast majority of animals spend the vast majority of their life trying to find food and avoid being eaten. The vast majority of them are unsuccessful. That is not hyperbole, not exaggeration, it is a fact. Most animals are killed and eaten before they can reach maturity. Those not lucky enough to suffer this fate die from starvation or the elements. Many are killed by their own parents. Statistically few, only those strong enough or fortunate enough to survive live to "enjoy" any aspect of their life. And if they do happen to make it to their prime it is statistically probable that they will be hunted down and eaten or die from the elements before they can reach old age.

I love nature and I love animals in the wild. I have had many opportunities to observe animals in their natural environment. I grew up in a rural part of Utah. But the idea that native means "enjoyment" and domestic means "suffering" is a blatant lie. There are farmers and others who mistreat animals but not all and not even most. For most animals in the wild life simply means a short existence and a painful death.

Compare that to most dogs and cats (most that I know of). They play in the yard or the house, get constant attention and have little if any fear of being slaughtered by some predator. Statistically that vast majority who live with a caring family suffer little or no disease, get care when they do and are well fed.

There are no police in the wild to ensure that animals are not mistreated by other animals. There are police to ensure that animals are not mistreated from man.

I don't know about you but if I had a choice of being a domesticated dog in a loving family or living in the wild avoiding predators and spending all of my time looking for food I would choose domestication. JMO.
 
Thanks!

My sis states she replied to a comment about fur with: "Have you ever met a mink? They eat their young!"

In all seriousness, some of the passion results from the desire to be in a crussade against something. To fight against some great, unjust power--children dying everywhere from immunizations!!

Too bad they never check the data.

I recall a teacher who ended his Cold War section with Dr. Strangelove that, in his time, not a lot of people laughed at the movie. His dad was a State Rep who was concerned about flouridation. [In the movie a general tries to start WWIII because he believes communists are poisoning the water which makes him impotent.--Ed.]

The mindless rational of General Jack D. Ripper is analogous, unfortunately, to the zealot.

--J.D.
 
Jon_in_london said:
All animal rights activists and greenies should be lined locked up in padded cells were they cant do any harm to anybody.
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Jesus Christ! Tar us all with the one brush, why don't ya!

I'm against animal testing, won't use battery chicken eggs (actually I keep my own chickens because even free-range chickens usually have to endure cruel conditions), and am generally against cruelty to animals.

I eat meat, mind you. Beef, lamb and poultry, because as far as I'm concerned these animals were made for eating. I don't eat fish because I don't like it, but would if the fish in question is tasty (usually if it's battered beyond recognition). I would like to see these animals live half-way pleasant lives before ending up on the dinner table, but it's a slow process. Just trying to get rid of battery farms for sheep and cows is a war in itself.

I don't use violent methods to protest, I merely boycott and educate my colleagues.

Just goes to show that not all animal activists are complete loonies, and that we can live in the shades of grey that is the real world.

Think before you post.
 
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