John Edward - psychic or what?

[tsig]

wardenclyffe, Why do I keep going back to psychics and mediums when every one I've been to so far in my opinion has been fake? I'll answer your question with another question... Why do people keep playing the lottery? And, I'm fascinated by the subject and always open to the possibilities..and for me, it's fun. A night out with friends or my brother Occam Jr. and always the possibility of "What if.." At the very least I always have a funny story to tell after the fact. OMG, I went to a small psychic gathering last week with friends and learned that in a past life I was a Scottish male midget...a very happy Scottish male midget...my biggest question after that is why must I be short every time I am reincarnated : ) And just to be clear to those of you with no sense of humor, Garrette et al., no, I did not believe it. More happened that night but I digress. Agreed it is NOT fun for people who are desperately seeking comfort and answers and who then end up at a James Van Praaghy event. But what I find just as reprehensible as fake mediums preying on the bereaved are those non-believers who try to convince someone who has found comfort through a medium or personal signs from their deceased loved one that it was not real. Because I know it can be real. And even though I enjoy the debate, there are others out there who can truly be hurt by the insistence that the comfort they've found is an illusion. And what gets me the most about that is non believers think they are helping by spreading their non belief and negativity...when in reality they are just as hurtful as any fake medium. And I know non- believers feel they are enlightening others by showing them that once you are dead you are really most sincerely dead...BUT you're WRONG...and possibly hurting others...and yes THAT annoys me. James Randi annoys me. A lot. And if I were John Edward I would never agree to the million dollar challenge he proposes...I wouldn't trust James Randi as far as I could throw him... and NO matter what the evidence would show the skeptics would attempt to explain it away. Just as they try to do with regard to the testing done in the "Afterlife Experiments." Which by the way , Garrette, Dr. Schwartz does respond to Randi's and your concerns...just google it and you can have your endless debate with him, not me. Ward, I think it's great you are open to the possibility ...and remember for me it is not that big of a stretch to believe John Edward can communicate with those who have crossed over because I absolutely communicated with my Nana that night...she proved it.

If your Nana communicated with you why did your dad need JE to do it?

 

[tsig]

Pakeha...I took a gamble by ever posting a thread in this forum and here's where I go for broke! As I told Truethat, yes, I do believe that evil spirits may come through...thus the protection prayers. Now remember the psychic party I told you about where I learned that no matter how many times I am reincarnated I will always be short? (I'm still struggling with that...) About 10 people there, I was one of the last people to take my turn...standing at the front of the room in complete darkness with only a candle illuminating my face and eyes closed. In this light your face does seem to change ...little freaky... but for most all in good fun. Psychic said no protection prayers with anyone. Kinda made me uneasy and I really didn't even want to take my turn....but Hey everyone else was doing it
So I go to the front of the room and tell people I believe in the possibility of this "stuff" but I would only do the candle thingy with a protection prayer first...so I said the prayer out loud and took my turn. Did see something that night, though, which would make me never do it again... but again I digress. What I do find really interesting is that the Catholic Church actually believes that contact with the spirit world is possible...albeit NOT a good idea because of the potential of contacting evil spirits. Protection prayers...cover your bases! : )
But Pakeha, you're right , I am going to take your advice and ask a priest his thoughts on mediums...then right after that I'll ask him his thoughts on homosexuality. : )
And with that...it's time for me to walk away from the table.

Spooky ghost stories in a dark room illuminated by a candle.

 

[Garrette]

"...and things taught by demons." Hmmmmm....like "There is NO God" kinda things?

Atheists quoting the Bible?

Fascinating.

Spock

Robin, do you wish to discuss the Randi/Schwartz exchange? Or is that off limits?

If so, how about the discrepancies in your own account of the JE reading. Please answer directly so everyone reading will know: are you willing to acknowledge them? If so, are you willing to discuss them?

 

[Garrette]

Spooky ghost stories in a dark room illuminated by a candle.

Well, yes, but the fact that it ensnares believers is not that big a pill to swallow; many or perhaps most people (at least in the USian circles with which I am familiar) have not been exposed to the kinds of thinking and analysis that would allow them to avoid the trap. I know because I was one.

It becomes laughable or pitiable or Spockishly fascinating when those tools are made available and the fallacies pointed out and the believer refuses to use the new knowledge or even to acknowledge that it has merit.

 

[Pixel42]

Atheists quoting the Bible?

When someone subscribes to two mutually contradictory beliefs it isn't necessary to believe in either in order to point out to them that the holy scripture of one flatly forbids the other.

It's also worth emphasising that it's clearly possible to believe in an afterlife without being taken in by charlatans like Edward. Forgoing the "comfort" of the latter does not prevent most Christians from continuing to take comfort in the former.

 

[pakeha]

"...and things taught by demons." Hmmmmm....like "There is NO God" kinda things?

Atheists quoting the Bible?

Fascinating.

Spock

Hi, Robin. I'd like to think that pathetic reply wasn't particularly well-thought out.
You have no idea who is an atheist on this forum, after all.


A question: were your Nana and/or your Dad christians?
How do you think they'd feel about you spending money on a medium?

 

[Resume]

"...and things taught by demons." Hmmmmm....like "There is NO God" kinda things?

Atheists quoting the Bible?

Fascinating.

Spock

Nothing makes a good bible skeptic like a cover to cover reading.

 

[John Jones]

"...and things taught by demons." Hmmmmm....like "There is NO God" kinda things?

Atheists quoting the Bible?

Fascinating.

Spock

In my experience, atheists are better informed of scripture than theists.

You provide a sterling example.

 

[truethat]

Leviticus 19:31

“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God.


Isaiah 8:19

And when they say to you, “Inquire of the mediums and the necromancers who chirp and mutter,” should not a people inquire of their God? Should they inquire of the dead on behalf of the living?

In case you missed it Robin. And yes you will find that most atheists are better versed in the bible than their Christian counterparts. I love when people ask me why I'm an atheist and I say it's because I studied religion.

Imagine that, and a scholarship to the seminary as well. Only to get there and realize all the others hadn't even cracked the Bible past what their priest instructed them to read at mass.

Psychics are forbidden by God. Try and reconcile that one.

 

[Pixel42]

And yes you will find that most atheists are better versed in the bible than their Christian counterparts.

I do find it surprising how many Christians are under the impression that their dead relatives are already living happily in heaven; I thought it was fairly clear that the dead don't get resurrected until Judgement Day, when God will decide who gets to join him and who gets sent to The Other Place. In the meantime the dead sleep, and aren't available for conversations about fridges.

 

[truethat]

yep

 

[fromdownunder]

I do find it surprising how many Christians are under the impression that their dead relatives are already living happily in heaven; I thought it was fairly clear that the dead don't get resurrected until Judgement Day, when God will decide who gets to join him and who gets sent to The Other Place. In the meantime the dead sleep, and aren't available for conversations about fridges.

John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear the sound of His voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


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[Susheel]

"...and things taught by demons." Hmmmmm....like "There is NO God" kinda things?

Atheists quoting the Bible?

Fascinating.

Spock

Really? Why? You think the atheists on this forum are so because it is cool. Many of the agnostics/atheists here have a better knowledge and understanding of religious texts and the milieu within which these were created that the god botherers who supposedly live their life following its tenets.
Wasn't it DOC who, after 1000s or so posts trying to prove that the Bible was unadulterated fact, ultimately admitted that he hadn't fully read it?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

One of the leading causes of Christians becoming atheists is those Christians sitting down and actually reading the Bible.

I've read the Bible cover to cover. Have you, Robin?

 

[truethat]

My graduate thesis was on the Old Testament, Robin. Come to the dark side where peope actually read the books instead of thumping on them.

 

[Robin1]

One of the leading causes of Christians becoming atheists is those Christians sitting down and actually reading the Bible.

I've read the Bible cover to cover. Have you, Robin?

WOW! So, actually reading the Bible cover to cover...THAT...is what turned some of you Christians into atheists?? I get that some might not agree with ALL that is written in the Bible. As a matter of fact I already told you that I for one do not...remember my earlier homosexuality reference? The fact that all of you didn't "GET THAT" about me from my reference is "PROOF" to me that many of you here are not as smart as you like to think you are. As for me, I KNOW I don't KNOW everything...always open to learning something new. That doesn't mean I have to agree with everything I hear. Do I believe in Jesus and that His teachings represent "TRUTH"...of course. But, in terms of how I would describe my overall beliefs a better term would be "spiritual" rather than "Catholic." I will again offer one final Biblical quote for all here who claim that it is the very teachings in the Bible that have turned you into atheists...and REALLY PLEASE REFLECT on it and how it MAY or may not apply to you:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
1 Timothy 4 : 1-2

 

[Sledge]

So you pick and choose which parts of the Bible you follow? Not sure I can criticise you for that, most religious people do the same thing in my experience.

 

[Slowvehicle]

WOW! So, actually reading the Bible cover to cover...THAT...is what turned some of you Christians into atheists?? I get that some might not agree with ALL that is written in the Bible. As a matter of fact I already told you that I for one do not...remember my earlier homosexuality reference? The fact that all of you didn't "GET THAT" about me from my reference is "PROOF" to me that many of you here are not as smart as you like to think you are. As for me, I KNOW I don't KNOW everything...always open to learning something new. That doesn't mean I have to agree with everything I hear. Do I believe in Jesus and that His teachings represent "TRUTH"...of course. But, in terms of how I would describe my overall beliefs a better term would be "spiritual" rather than "Catholic." I will again offer one final Biblical quote for all here who claim that it is the very teachings in the Bible that have turned you into atheists...and REALLY PLEASE REFLECT on it and how it MAY or may not apply to you:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
1 Timothy 4 : 1-2

Are you still here? How many final exits is this, now?

So your "superior knowledge" of the bible tells you that disagreeing with what you think the bible says about homosexuality is some kind of plus? What does your bible say your Jesus said about homosexuality? Consider reading John Shore...

Since you clearly feel qualified to pick and choose among what your bible says, why not deal with the multiple, specific prohibitions about consulting with mediums, or trying to contact the dead? What is your standard: If it is inconvenient, you ignore it? Or, do you have a more sophisticated filter?

Do you often find CAPSHOUT EFFECTIVE?!?! eleven

BTW, my Master's thesis (on the nature and practice of sacraments as opposed to memorial observations, or "Why Baptists Use Grape Juice", got me thrown out of seminary, a long, long, time ago...)

 

[Resume]

WOW! So, actually reading the Bible cover to cover...THAT...is what turned some of you Christians into atheists?? I get that some might not agree with ALL that is written in the Bible. As a matter of fact I already told you that I for one do not...remember my earlier homosexuality reference? The fact that all of you didn't "GET THAT" about me from my reference is "PROOF" to me that many of you here are not as smart as you like to think you are. As for me, I KNOW I don't KNOW everything...always open to learning something new. That doesn't mean I have to agree with everything I hear. Do I believe in Jesus and that His teachings represent "TRUTH"...of course. But, in terms of how I would describe my overall beliefs a better term would be "spiritual" rather than "Catholic." I will again offer one final Biblical quote for all here who claim that it is the very teachings in the Bible that have turned you into atheists...and REALLY PLEASE REFLECT on it and how it MAY or may not apply to you:
"The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons."
1 Timothy 4 : 1-2

You disagree with parts of the bible because of course, they're immoral. So what are they doing in there? You quote Timothy but ignore Leviticus or Samuel? Can you articulate why?

Do you honestly imagine your correspondents here are unfamiliar with these arguments? If you do, you've made a serious miscalculation.

 

[ExMinister]

Deleted. Never mind.