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Jogging in Georgia while black.

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Blue Mountain said:
In Skeptic Ginger's scenario, the worst that can happen is some old guy shouting "Get off my lawn!"
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Yep, I saw that movie too...

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Thermal said:
Come on, man. You're free-floating the argument, now. We were talking about how many men and guns were out in the "armed skirmish line". One guy, one gun. Nothing else shown.
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Which guy is your one guy? The driver who was armed with a shotgun, or his father who was in the bed of the truck armed with a handgun? They're both there, and they're both armed, so I have to question your claim of one guy, one gun.

Thermal said:
And being hit by a truck is not proven, and contradicted by testimony being cherry-picked to fit the confirmation bias.
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Speaking of confirmation bias, how would kicking a truck leave fibers from your shorts in the dent? Did Arbery pull his shorts down and wrap them around his shoe?
 
Bogative said:
I'm not the one concerned about his race
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Not in so many words, no, but you seem very interested in the man's past, as if that has any bearing whatsoever on his death.

Do you understand the concept of linear time?
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:i:

Doubtful, I'm not a thief and I have never been videoed trespassing on someone's property so there's no need for anyone to "hunt me down" and I'm not stupid enough to charge someone who has a gun.
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Oops, careful there, your pretense of not excusing his death based on priors is slipping.
 
Bogative said:
I just got back from the job site and surprise surprise, there were no security cameras inside the house and no curious pedestrians walking around.
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Well, there you halve it, folks! Today there was no onlookers at this one constructuon site that might or might not exist, and there were no security cameras. You know what that means? It means that the n---, sorry, the thug in question had what was coming to him, and the cameras must have been installed for him. That's the only explanation. By the way, have I mentioned how I am the least racist person ever?
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
They didn't kill him because he was trespassing. They killed him because they assumed, with no credible evidence, he was a serial thief.
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And even had they been right about that they still would've been in the wrong, but they were also wrong about that anyway. How can someone be 200% wrong eludes me.
 
Belz... said:
Dude, just admit that you were wrong about the 4 minute thing. Sheesh.
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Just to add a bit, and correct some statements re: running:

The military standard for a 2-mile run in the 17-21 age group is ~8.5 minutes per mile (16:56 for 2 miles, when I was in)...and that’s not achievable by many. Assuming 4 to 5 minutes per mile is assuming the upper end of competition level ability. Even regular runners are rarely less than 6 or so. My best was about 7:30, at a time when I ran 4-5 miles three times a week. A person I know who competed at a college level was about 5:45.

ETA: just as an aside, many treadmills max out at 10mph (6 minute mile), and a typical running pace is generally configured at 6mph (10 minute mile).


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Hellbound said:
Just to add a bit, and correct some statements re: running:

The military standard for a 2-mile run in the 17-21 age group is ~8.5 minutes per mile (16:56 for 2 miles, when I was in)...and that’s not achievable by many. Assuming 4 to 5 minutes per mile is assuming the upper end of competition level ability. Even regular runners are rarely less than 6 or so. My best was about 7:30, at a time when I ran 4-5 miles three times a week. A person I know who competed at a college level was about 5:45.


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My best is infinity, since I can't run a mile.
 
Hellbound said:
Just to add a bit, and correct some statements re: running:

The military standard for a 2-mile run in the 17-21 age group is ~8.5 minutes per mile (16:56 for 2 miles, when I was in)...and that’s not achievable by many. Assuming 4 to 5 minutes per mile is assuming the upper end of competition level ability. Even regular runners are rarely less than 6 or so. My best was about 7:30, at a time when I ran 4-5 miles three times a week. A person I know who competed at a college level was about 5:45.

ETA: just as an aside, many treadmills max out at 10mph (6 minute mile), and a typical running pace is generally configured at 6mph (10 minute mile).


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When I was in my peak shape 2 years ago, I was able to do a 22:30 5K. That's just over 7/mile, and is darn flying for a 50 year old. Winning folks usually went 17 - 18 mins, so maybe 5:30 pace.

I just saw a big-time 5 K where the winner went 15:50, but set a course record in doing so.

My best 10K time was 47 mins, so about a 7:40 pace. In races I've done, 10K winners are generally 38 - 39, so 6:30 type paces.

For the general public, the fastest folks you'll see will generally be running about a 6 min pace for 3 miles. That's really, really fast for the general public. Sure, elite runners can go a lot faster, but that's why they are elite
 
Belz... said:
Dude, just admit that you were wrong about the 4 minute thing. Sheesh.
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Dude, get caught up on your reading, sheesh.

I said a serious runner can drop a mile in 4 mins. That is to loosely compare to the claim of Arbery being "exhausted from running for his life", covering a couple hundred yards total in abt 8 mins. The 4 minute thing was simply to knock the cobwebs out of some posters heads and help them realize that Arbery was in fact moving pretty slowly, which makes me think he was not taking them seriously yet. I freely acknowledged that the point is the same if you change it to 5 or 6 minutes.

The "sub 4" addition was just dishonesty on behalf of one other poster, who decided to move the goalposts by raising the performance level to one not even claimed.

However, since it matters not a whit in terms of the argument and the whole 4 minute mile thing is a childish attempt to find some triviality wrong rather than address the meat of the argument: I happily concede that to the best of my knowledge, no runner ever has approached anything like a 4 minute mile.

They're not better than this level of argumentation. You are.
 
Hellbound said:
Just to add a bit, and correct some statements re: running:

The military standard for a 2-mile run in the 17-21 age group is ~8.5 minutes per mile (16:56 for 2 miles, when I was in)...and that’s not achievable by many. Assuming 4 to 5 minutes per mile is assuming the upper end of competition level ability. Even regular runners are rarely less than 6 or so. My best was about 7:30, at a time when I ran 4-5 miles three times a week. A person I know who competed at a college level was about 5:45.

ETA: just as an aside, many treadmills max out at 10mph (6 minute mile), and a typical running pace is generally configured at 6mph (10 minute mile).


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Again, not that it matters but:

One mile times are not comparable to averaging 2, 3+ or more. You can stagger across the finish of a 1 mile with rubber legs, if you don't need to ration what you have in the tank to go longer distances. Your pace on a 10k is nothing like your pace on a 1 mile.

Also, 8 and a half minutes for a mile is deconditioning for even a half-assed athlete. My non-athlete kids were in the mid-upper 7s for high school mile times (one swimmer and crew rower was in the low 6s).
 
Thermal said:
I am not talking about sub 4 performance. I am comparing that serious runners can cover a mile in about that time, with pace of the 8 or so minutes for a couple football fields covered in the map. It's not that complicated.
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:rolleyes:

Thermal said:
I said a serious runner can drop a mile in 4 mins.
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Yes you did. And you were wrong. And now you're frantically attempting to wallpaper over this error.
 
catsmate said:
:rolleyes:


Yes you did. And you were wrong. And now you're frantically attempting to wallpaper over this error.
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Absolutely. No serious runner ever on history has ever approached anything like four minutes for a mile. Utterly ludicrous for me to have used it as a loose comparison of running time versus distance to establish a pace. Complete fabrication on my end. Mea culpa. Happy?

You have any substantial contributions to the discussion or is that about it for you?
 
Thermal said:
Dude, get caught up on your reading, sheesh.

I said a serious runner can drop a mile in 4 mins. That is to loosely compare to the claim of Arbery being "exhausted from running for his life", covering a couple hundred yards total in abt 8 mins. The 4 minute thing was simply to knock the cobwebs out of some posters heads and help them realize that Arbery was in fact moving pretty slowly, which makes me think he was not taking them seriously yet. I freely acknowledged that the point is the same if you change it to 5 or 6 minutes.

The "sub 4" addition was just dishonesty on behalf of one other poster, who decided to move the goalposts by raising the performance level to one not even claimed.

However, since it matters not a whit in terms of the argument and the whole 4 minute mile thing is a childish attempt to find some triviality wrong rather than address the meat of the argument: I happily concede that to the best of my knowledge, no runner ever has approached anything like a 4 minute mile.

They're not better than this level of argumentation. You are.
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That's a lot of words, and nowhere in there is an admission that you made a mistake. It isn't that hard to do. At least you didn't say he had a piston in his pants.
 
Belz... said:
That's a lot of words, and nowhere in there is an admission that you made a mistake. It isn't that hard to do. At least you didn't say he had a piston in his pants.
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How many different ways can I say this?

It was a grievous mistake for me to assert that a serious runner can run a mile in 4 minutes. It just can't be, and the fault is entirely mine for making such an absurd claim. I will rap out a 5k in my half assed half hour+ time in penance for my wanton hubris.

Again: it is absurdly innacurate to claim that a serious runner can do anything like a four minute mile. Conceded. My bad entirely.

Welcome to the 2021 ISF, all.
 
Thermal said:
Absolutely. No serious runner ever on history has ever approached anything like four minutes for a mile. Utterly ludicrous for me to have used it as a loose comparison of running time versus distance to establish a pace. Complete fabrication on my end. Mea culpa. Happy?

You have any substantial contributions to the discussion or is that about it for you?
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It is the idea that any serious runner is by definition a world class athlete. What about regular runners who are not world class athletes, are they serious or not?
 
Thermal said:
How many different ways can I say this?

It was a grievous mistake for me to assert that a serious runner can run a mile in 4 minutes. It just can't be, and the fault is entirely mine for making such an absurd claim. I will rap out a 5k in my half assed half hour+ time in penance for my wanton hubris.

Again: it is absurdly innacurate to claim that a serious runner can do anything like a four minute mile. Conceded. My bad entirely.

Welcome to the 2021 ISF, all.
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Actually, the grievous mistake was when you brought up the 4 minute mile benchmark to ascertain whether Arbery was running or merely toying with the 3 armed rednecks who were trying to run him down.
 
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