Jogging in Georgia while black.

[acbytesla]

I find it strange that you find it strange. Many of my neighbors also poke around the new homes during construction; we're all curious.

Exactly. And here's the thing. If he had stolen something of any real value it would have been obvious to these guys following him. It's not like a finished home with jewelry you might stuff in your pocket.

 

[smartcooky]

Your anecdote about a single job site is wholly unimpressive! You seem to be the only person in this thread who claims to have never seen a curious onlooker or surveillance camera in a construction site... I wonder why that is.

ETA: And for your further education, how about this, the actual construction site in question. Surveillance footage of MULTIPLE people entering that exact site site on different occasions



Oops! That doesn't quite gel with your claims here does it.

Of course, I expect you will ignore or handwave away this actual evidence that your claim is FALSE because it doesn't fit your racist "******-boy bad" narrative!

Bump

Well Bogative, how about it? Do you have any answers, or are you just going to ignore this evidence that your claim is total bollocks, and pretend it doesn't exist?

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Completely irrelevant. He was still murdered.

Yep.

This is a bit of the fallout from Crump's tactic of trying to characterize Arbery as a completely innocent jogger. But Crump isn't the prosecutor. And I don't recall the prosecution taking that angle at any of the previous hearings.

As would be expected, prosecution had already filed a motion in limine asking the court to prohibit any irrelevant evidence regarding the character of the victim. The hearing on those motions and a number of others has been pushed back to May 13.

None of this is relevant to the actions of the defendants. There is no evidence that the defendants were aware of any of this information. Greg might have been aware of the gun charge, but there is no indication that he recognized Arbery.

I expect none of this will be admissible.

 

[acbytesla]

Yep.

This is a bit of the fallout from Crump's tactic of trying to characterize Arbery as a completely innocent jogger. But Crump isn't the prosecutor. And I don't recall the prosecution taking that angle at any of the previous hearings.

As would be expected, prosecution had already filed a motion in limine asking the court to prohibit any irrelevant evidence regarding the character of the victim. The hearing on those motions and a number of others has been pushed back to May 13.

None of this is relevant to the actions of the defendants. There is no evidence that the defendants were aware of any of this information. Greg might have been aware of the gun charge, but there is no indication that he recognized Arbery.

I expect none of this will be admissible.

It is very clear that the Defense wants to put Arberry on trial. In their pretrial motions they have asked the judge to banish the word "victim" from the trial and want to use Arbery's past that the defendants were unaware of as justification for the murder.

 

[Minoosh]

Seriously, what can you do in Georgia while Black?

I mean outside of picking cotton?

You can vote. But don't try to organize anything; the legislature will make giving someone a ride to the polls a crime.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Greg and Travis McMichael were right to be suspicious of him and to chase him down and confront him.

No they weren't. Even if all your worst accusations are 100% true and not in any way altered by circumstances, that's still the "citizen's arrest" defence, which still means that what the McMichaels did was illegal.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

It's also natural for some people to confront a known trespasser when they see him in their neighborhood.

The question isn't whether it's "natural" to chase down and shoot someone you suspect is a trespasser, it's whether or not it's legal. The answer is no. It's actually murder.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

No.

Do you understand the concept of linear time?

Not-a-jogger Arbery wasn't "murdered" because he was trespassing. McMichael recognized him from security camera footage from a house that previously had property stolen from it, as Ahmuad "not-a-jogger" sprinted down the street from the same area as the house he was videoed trespassing in before.

The McMichaels gave chase.

The McMichaels drove past Ahmaud "not-a-jogger" Arbery and stopped to confront him.

Arbery then darted from 3 to 4 feet off of the right side of the road to near the center of the road in front of the McMichael's truck where he tried to grab a gun and was then shot.

He was killed because he tried to take someone's gun from them, not for trespassing.

Well, I'm glad you agree that he was murdered.

 

[smartcooky]

Hello, Bogative

I'm still waiting for you to address this post...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13443359&postcount=3210

*** seems the cat's got his tongue ****

 

[TurkeysGhost]

No.

Do you understand the concept of linear time?

Not-a-jogger Arbery wasn't "murdered" because he was trespassing. McMichael recognized him from security camera footage from a house that previously had property stolen from it, as Ahmuad "not-a-jogger" sprinted down the street from the same area as the house he was videoed trespassing in before.

The McMichaels gave chase.

The McMichaels drove past Ahmaud "not-a-jogger" Arbery and stopped to confront him.

Arbery then darted from 3 to 4 feet off of the right side of the road to near the center of the road in front of the McMichael's truck where he tried to grab a gun and was then shot.

He was killed because he tried to take someone's gun from them, not for trespassing.

Seems like that version of events pretty much collapsed when they discovered the victim's clothing fibers and an impact dent on the side of one of the chase vehicles. Arbery was struck by one of the trucks prior to being shot to dead in the street, which gives him a pretty compelling reason to be in fear for his life and attempt (unsuccessfully) to disarm his assailants.

Investigators found a swipe from a palm print on the rear door of Bryan's truck, cotton fibers near the truck bed that "we attribute to contact with Mr. Arbery" and a dent below the fibers, he said.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mcmichaels-hearing-ahmaud-arbery/index.html

 

[Thermal]

Hello, Bogative

I'm still waiting for you to address this post...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13443359&postcount=3210

*** seems the cat's got his tongue ****

Not clear on what the gotcha is here. There's no dispute that the owner had video on. I gather that Bogative's point is that Arbery was trespassing because he was casing the place, which seems at least plausible. That other people wandered in doesn't detract from that. He's saying it's weird to leave valuables just laying around, then put up surveillance cameras. Makes more sense to just secure the damn site.

 

[Thermal]

Seems like that version of events pretty much collapsed when they discovered the victim's clothing fibers and an impact dent on the side of one of the chase vehicles. Arbery was struck by one of the trucks prior to being shot to dead in the street, which gives him a pretty compelling reason to be in fear for his life and attempt (unsuccessfully) to disarm his assailants.



https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mcmichaels-hearing-ahmaud-arbery/index.html

It's perfectly plausible that Arbery was hit by the truck. Is it also plausible that they drove up alongside Arbery, and he got pissed and kicked the truck, and pushed back off it with an open palm? Not sure a dent and all collapses anything.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It's perfectly plausible that Arbery was hit by the truck. Is it also plausible that they drove up alongside Arbery, and he got pissed and kicked the truck, and pushed back off it with an open palm? Not sure a dent and all collapses anything.

Reporting indicates it was cotton fibers, so likely not from a kick but from solid contact with his body.

The GBI alleges, based on their investigation, that Bryan struck Arbery with his truck during one of his many attempts to illegally detain the fleeing Arbery. Bryan's attempt to illegally confine Arbery is the foundation of his culpability for felony murder.

 

[Thermal]

Reporting indicates it was cotton fibers, so likely not from a kick but from solid contact with his body.

The GBI alleges, based on their investigation, that Bryan struck Arbery with his truck during one of his many attempts to illegally detain the fleeing Arbery. Bryan's attempt to illegally confine Arbery is the foundation of his culpability for felony murder.

Keep in mind, only Dial claims Arbery was hit. The defense (and also cooperative star witness Roddy) say that Arbery actually tried to get in the truck. This to me is consistent with Arbery's aggressive approach to being menaced by Hillbilly boys. Recall that he refused to back down and made a running rush at the gunman.

You ever dent a truck panel? Takes quite a hit against a vertical body, which displaces the force. Its really easy to dent it with a focused kick. So I'm not convinced yet about running him over or whatever the claim is here.

Note to others: none of this sidebar changes the primary guilt. Hit or not, kicked or not, the McMicheals are the sole villains.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Seriously, what can you do in Georgia while Black?

I mean outside of picking cotton?

They should be ok as long as they instantly obey every white man and never look them in the eye. Also staying out of neighborhoods they don't belong in is a clear mandatory thing too.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Its vital. It means McMichael was threatening Arbery with a firearm (which he had no right to do, legal or otherwise). It also means that Arbery was entitled to act in self defence.

Only if you think of him as a person with rights. But this is Georgia where the govenor is doing a Paul Revere saying "The negroes are voting, the negroes are voting"

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Keep in mind, only Dial claims Arbery was hit. The defense (and also cooperative star witness Roddy) say that Arbery actually tried to get in the truck. This to me is consistent with Arbery's aggressive approach to being menaced by Hillbilly boys. Recall that he refused to back down and made a running rush at the gunman.

You ever dent a truck panel? Takes quite a hit against a vertical body, which displaces the force. Its really easy to dent it with a focused kick. So I'm not convinced yet about running him over or whatever the claim is here.

Note to others: none of this sidebar changes the primary guilt. Hit or not, kicked or not, the McMicheals are the sole villains.

I'm not sure I would characterize Arbery as aggressive. The reporting indicates that the chase lasted over 4 minutes. That's an eternity if you consider a man on foot being chased by a pack of murderers brandishing firearms from the bed of a truck. Was it aggressive on his part to charge his attackers, or simply a measure of desperation from the man who was spent from the pursuit?

The statements from the GBI seem to be claiming that the three murderers made multiple attempts to box in Arbery during the pursuit, and that the brief video clip we've all seen is simply the last of these several attempts that ended with Arbery being killed.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Interesting detail I'm noticing from the Wikipedia on the "prior incidents" section:

On February 11, 2020, Travis called 9-1-1 to report a slender 6-foot-tall black man with short hair, wearing red shorts and a white shirt, who was trespassing on the site of a house under construction. Travis said, "I've never seen this guy before in the neighborhood." The dispatcher asked whether Travis was OK, and he said, "Yeah, it just startled me. When I turned around and saw him and backed up, he reached into his pocket and ran into the house. So I don't know if he's armed or not. But he looked like he was acting like he was." "We've been having a lot of burglaries and break-ins around here lately", Travis said on the call. He told the dispatcher that he was out in his truck, and that as many as four neighbors were out looking for the man. His father Gregory was one of the people out searching that night, and Gregory and at least one other neighbor were armed.[53] Police responded and searched the house along with a neighbor, but found no one.[53][54] However, surveillance video from that evening showed a man who reportedly looked like Arbery, briefly walking in and out of the house under construction. He did not take anything.[53][55]

This surveillance video that supposedly shows a man that may look like Arbery entering the construction site also shows the person not taking anything. In response to this first trespass, the McMichaels sent out armed cars patrolling the neighborhood looking for the trespasser, whom they didn't find.

Sounds like this vigilantes had a hair trigger. They went armed chasing after Arbery, who allegedly trespassed in an open construction site and didn't take anything, because he matched the description of a guy who had previously trespassed on the same site and also didn't take anything. I'm really struggling to understand how that is a proportionate response or even vaguely in compliance with Georgia's citizen arrest statute.

I fail to see, even under the most generous reading of the law, how any of the killers had any lawful reason to forcibly arrest Arbery. Even if he were the guy on the first surveillance cam, he never stole anything during either of his brief trespass into an active construction site. On both occasions these idiots sent out armed trucks seeking to cause a potentially deadly confrontation over a case of suspected trespassing of an unoccupied property.

 

[Thermal]

I'm not sure I would characterize Arbery as aggressive. The reporting indicates that the chase lasted over 4 minutes. That's an eternity if you consider a man on foot being chased by a pack of murderers brandishing firearms from the bed of a truck. Was it aggressive on his part to charge his attackers, or simply a measure of desperation from the man who was spent from the pursuit?

The statements from the GBI seem to be claiming that the three murderers made multiple attempts to box in Arbery during the pursuit, and that the brief video clip we've all seen is simply the last of these several attempts that ended with Arbery being killed.

Discussed upthread. Put yourself in the position of being on foot, and guys in trucks yelling at you. What do you do? Stay on their turf, the paved street?

Have you guys ever in your life been kids fleeing from cop cars? I have. You get off the ******* road, running between houses. Chase over.

And an actual runner can drop a mile in four minutes. Based on the map provided way upthread, the distance covered back and forth looks like a couple hundred yards, tops. That's a leisurely trot pace. All considered, it sounds to me like Arbery was ******* with them, not scared at all, till the final showdown, and even then, he was not intimidated or running off the road into the obvious cover.

Yet again: it changes nothing in terms of the McMicheals guilt. This is just to explain the available evidence to put the picture together. Remember when the early narrative was that he was a wholesome jogger just minding his own business, and being randomly attacked by rednecks not tolerating him on their "white road"? The rednecks are still guilty, and still murderers, but the attached narrative is almost entirely collapsed.

 

[JoeMorgue]

That's why I hate "narratives."

Reality is the story, it doesn't have a separate story being told on top of it.

I said from the first post that I didn't care, and still don't, if Arbery was a wholesome being of pure light who was friends with all the friendly woodland creatures or an Eldritch Abomination who's drivers license photo was an 18th century woodcutting of him terrorizing the village children.

He was still murdered either way.