Jogging in Georgia while black.

[I Am The Scum]

You don't get the chair for hate crime charges being tacked on. However, at this point, a reasonable argument could be made that murder 1 is the appropriate charge.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Why. In the name of God. Does it take a month. To release this stuff?

Because you're not on the jury?

I would have thought there's a lot of information that is being withheld (or trying to be withheld) from the press until the trial, no?

 

[wareyin]

Ahmaud Arbery was hit with a truck before he died, and his killer allegedly used a racial slur, investigator testifies

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/04/us/mcmichaels-hearing-ahmaud-arbery/index.html

I've seen it argued on this forum before by "the totally not racists" that calling someone by the only racial slur we don't allow here doesn't make one a racist. It just sort of slips out when people get excited. Could happen to anyone.

And we can just ignore the Confederate Flag right out, since it was actually part of the Georgia state flag as recently as 2003. (I honestly know people here in GA who are still upset it was removed, I kid you not)

Those are, of course, stupid arguments. But I expect they will be trotted out again.

And yeah, now that it's come out that they used their truck to repeatedly hit Arbery, that really shows how blinkered some of the stupid "it was only 4 minutes running for his life, there's no way he was stressed. He should have just stepped off the pavement, they had no intention of shooting him" arguments really were.

 

[I Am The Scum]

I've seen it argued on this forum before by "the totally not racists" that calling someone by the only racial slur we don't allow here doesn't make one a racist. It just sort of slips out when people get excited. Could happen to anyone.

This sort of claim even got it's own memed phrase: Heated gaming moment

(site is not entirely safe for work)

 

[Giordano]

I've seen it argued on this forum before by "the totally not racists" that calling someone by the only racial slur we don't allow here doesn't make one a racist. It just sort of slips out when people get excited. Could happen to anyone.

And we can just ignore the Confederate Flag right out, since it was actually part of the Georgia state flag as recently as 2003. (I honestly know people here in GA who are still upset it was removed, I kid you not)

Those are, of course, stupid arguments. But I expect they will be trotted out again.

And yeah, now that it's come out that they used their truck to repeatedly hit Arbery, that really shows how blinkered some of the stupid "it was only 4 minutes running for his life, there's no way he was stressed. He should have just stepped off the pavement, they had no intention of shooting him" arguments really were.

I love this argument because its claim is opposite actual human nature. One’s real personality and beliefs come out in anger and excitement; no one blurts out a racial slur in anger that they weren’t thinking about in calmer times. Like alcohol, anger makes people lose their inhibitions and say what they have been thinking.

 

[Thermal]

I love this argument because its claim is opposite actual human nature. One’s real personality and beliefs come out in anger and excitement; no one blurts out a racial slur in anger that they weren’t thinking about in calmer times. Like alcohol, anger makes people lose their inhibitions and say what they have been thinking.

Really? I've called guys stupid mother ******s while having a high opinion of their intellect and no reason to assume Oedipal travesties.

What's that you say? 'Oh, those are just generic hateful things to say when angry'? Yeah, welcome to the 21st century.

Guys I work with, of the whole rainbow of skin tone, throw the n word around both jovially and in anger (I'm personally not comfortable with it). It's meaning has evolved beyond 1960s usage. It really is a changing world. The intent remains the issue.

You don't show your true feelings when angry. Well, you sort of do. You show your desire to hurt with words, not endorsement of heartfelt philosophy.

 

[wareyin]

Really? I've called guys stupid mother ******s while having a high opinion of their intellect and no reason to assume Oedipal travesties.

What's that you say? 'Oh, those are just generic hateful things to say when angry'? Yeah, welcome to the 21st century.

Guys I work with, of the whole rainbow of skin tone, throw the n word around both jovially and in anger (I'm personally not comfortable with it). It's meaning has evolved beyond 1960s usage. It really is a changing world. The intent remains the issue.

You don't show your true feelings when angry. Well, you sort of do. You show your desire to hurt with words, not endorsement of heartfelt philosophy.

The only place I ever worked where white guys felt cool to throw the N word around was a small town machine shop where for some reason the owner never hired a black guy despite a large percentage of the area being black. I'm sure they, like you and your cow-orkers felt that using it both jovially and in anger was no big deal.

 

[Meadmaker]

I love this argument because its claim is opposite actual human nature. One’s real personality and beliefs come out in anger and excitement; no one blurts out a racial slur in anger that they weren’t thinking about in calmer times. Like alcohol, anger makes people lose their inhibitions and say what they have been thinking.

"Real personality"? Is that a scientific term? I tend to think that one's "real personality" is the one in evidence most of the time, not the one that comes out when drunk or angry. I know all about "in vino veritas", but if a person is inhibited, in any form, that's part of his personality. The fact that he is uninhibited or less inhibited when intoxicated or angry does not make that part of his personality "real".

But that's a different topic. As for this thread, I think the Confederate flag and the use of the N-word are strong indications that this guy was somewhat racist, not that that ought to be a surprise to anyone.

For me, that's a minor footnote when it comes to guilt or innocence. I think murder is more serious than racism, and racist murder is only very slightly worse than any old murder. Travis McMichael grabbed a shotgun and pointed it at someone. I don't want people doing that. I think he bears responsibility for what happened as a result. His racism is just another element that could be used to convince a jury that his motives perhaps were not entirely pure, as he will no doubt claim at trial.

 

[Thermal]

The only place I ever worked where white guys felt cool to throw the N word around was a small town machine shop where for some reason the owner never hired a black guy despite a large percentage of the area being black. I'm sure they, like you and your cow-orkers felt that using it both jovially and in anger was no big deal.

I'm a building contractor, and my crew has been jokingly called United Nations Construction. Four distinct languages spoken, not even getting into different Hispanic dialects and whatever the hell the Irish guys are speaking.

If your experience is working in a Cracker Barrel (metaphorically), then I'm sure we have different experiences with use of the language.

Also, I like how you said 'you and your co workers' when I specifically said I did not. Disingenous, I believe is the non insulting descriptor?

 

[wareyin]

I'm a building contractor, and my crew has been jokingly called United Nations Construction. Four distinct languages spoken, not even getting into different Hispanic dialects and whatever the hell the Irish guys are speaking.

If your experience is working in a Cracker Barrel (metaphorically), then I'm sure we have different experiences with use of the language.

Also, I like how you said 'you and your co workers' when I specifically said I did not. Disingenous, I believe is the non insulting descriptor?

You didn't defend its usage by saying that the meaning of the word isn't the same as it was in the 1960? That the world had moved on? Or when you were saying that you actually meant that it still was a big deal?

Dang, what are we coming to when people who defend the usage of a word can claim out of the other side of their mouth that they don't?

(And yes, I maintain that despite a few posters attempts to tell me how insulting disingenuous is while they were calling me such, it really isn't an insult.)

eta: aww, wait, are you doing some sort of meta thing where you use the word disingenuous wrong intentionally, like pretending you don't know what it means? Maybe as a way to distract from your totally not racist act of explaining how calling a black man the n word in Georgia with a Confederate Flag on (general)your truck, right after (general)you shot him doesn't indicate that racism had anything to do with things? Because wow, that'd be something!

 

[pgwenthold]

Why. In the name of God. Does it take a month. To release this stuff?

A month? This happened in February!

I have no problem with it taking a month to do a good investigation. If it were only a month.

The question is, why did the DA not know this? Actually, that's rhetorical.

 

[Thermal]

A month? This happened in February!

I have no problem with it taking a month to do a good investigation. If it were only a month.

The question is, why did the DA not know this? Actually, that's rhetorical.

Yeah, exactly. ******* Confederate flags and **** should have been front and center, as should vehicular ******* assault. Just stunning that the local Law would not have arrested these murderers on the spot, no questions.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I've seen it argued on this forum before by "the totally not racists" that calling someone by the only racial slur we don't allow here doesn't make one a racist. It just sort of slips out when people get excited. Could happen to anyone.

I still find it disturbing that the only people here that I've seen use racial slurs are the people who consider themselves fighters against racism.

 

[Thermal]

You didn't defend its usage by saying that the meaning of the word isn't the same as it was in the 1960? That the world had moved on? Or when you were saying that you actually meant that it still was a big deal?

No. I acknowledged its changed usage. Not defending anything. Having grown up when it was not okay for a white cat to use it, I still don't feel comfortable using it myself.

Dang, what are we coming to when people who defend the usage of a word can claim out of the other side of their mouth that they don't?

Disingenuous ftw!

(And yes, I maintain that despite a few posters attempts to tell me how insulting disingenuous is while they were calling me such, it really isn't an insult.)

eta: aww, wait, are you doing some sort of meta thing where you use the word disingenuous wrong intentionally, like pretending you don't know what it means? Maybe as a way to distract from your totally not racist act of explaining how calling a black man the n word in Georgia with a Confederate Flag on (general)your truck, right after (general)you shot him doesn't indicate that racism had anything to do with things? Because wow, that'd be something!

As I already said, and pretty clearly...

No. Just read the posts without being disingenuous.

 

[Babbylonian]

Yeah, exactly. ******* Confederate flags and **** should have been front and center, as should vehicular ******* assault. Just stunning that the local Law would not have arrested these murderers on the spot, no questions.

I suspect the assault with the truck detail is coming out now because somebody is trying to get out of a murder charge. Having been assaulted with a truck myself once as I was crossing the street adjacent to my high school, I can say that, even in the absence of physical damage (guy was trying to be an ******* but wasn't trying to kill me, though that could easily have happened) my fear response was huge. I froze up for a few seconds before recovering my **** enough to give him the double-bird and finish crossing the street. Had he pursued me, I'm not certain how I could have evaded him at all.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You guys are gonna look awful stupid when they start talking about the hammer!

 

[I Am The Scum]

Really? I've called guys stupid mother ******s while having a high opinion of their intellect and no reason to assume Oedipal travesties.

I think a more appropriate version of Giordano's point would be that one "defaults to their norms" during a moment of tension. An American, for example, in a moment of shock might cry out "Oh my God!" (even if he's an atheist), but is extremely unlikely shout "Sacre bleu!"

Hopefully, racial epithets are not in your lexicon of insults, which would make them extremely unlikely to be heard by anyone on the receiving end of your invective.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think a more appropriate version of Giordano's point would be that one "defaults to their norms" during a moment of tension. An American, for example, in a moment of shock might cry out "Oh my God!" (even if he's an atheist), but is extremely unlikely shout "Sacre bleu!"

Hopefully, racial epithets are not in your lexicon of insults, which would make them extremely unlikely to be heard by anyone on the receiving end of your invective.

And if this were true the people spouting these epithets would be say as likely to call a white guy the N word in a fit of rage as a black guy. Does not seem to actually happen that way though.

 

[Checkmite]

On cross-examination, Dial testified that Bryan mentioned the slur in a May 13 GBI interview, and to Dial's knowledge, Bryan had not previously made the allegation, including during a May 11 interview.

However, the agent said, there were "numerous times" on social media and via messaging services that McMichael used the same slur, once messaging someone that he loved his job because there "weren't any N-words anywhere.

In another instance sometime before the shooting, he replied in an Instagram message saying things would be better if someone had "blown that N-word's head off," Dial testified. Dial did not say to whom McMichael was referring. Dial was not asked for more context.

Bryan, too, had several messages on his phone that included "racial" terms and indicated he may have prejudged Arbery when he saw him that day, Dial said.

"There's evidence of Mr. Bryan's racist attitude in his communications, and from that I extrapolate the reason why he made assumptions he did that day," he said. "He saw a man running down the road with a truck following him, and I believe he made certain assumptions that were, at least in part, based upon his racial bias."

Yeah. They didn't call him a "effing n-word" because they were "just angry and he happened to be black". They called him the N-word because they were racist as hell.

 

[carlitos]

Really? I've called guys stupid mother ******s while having a high opinion of their intellect and no reason to assume Oedipal travesties.



What's that you say? 'Oh, those are just generic hateful things to say when angry'? Yeah, welcome to the 21st century.



Guys I work with, of the whole rainbow of skin tone, throw the n word around both jovially and in anger (I'm personally not comfortable with it). It's meaning has evolved beyond 1960s usage. It really is a changing world. The intent remains the issue.



You don't show your true feelings when angry. Well, you sort of do. You show your desire to hurt with words, not endorsement of heartfelt philosophy.

You are 100%, 180 degrees, dead wrong.

ETA - I messed up the multiquote:

Having grown up when it was not okay for a white cat to use it .....

Now. Now it is now ok. That time when you grow up, it should be now.