Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

You really think there's no remaining room for any interpretation of Arbery as innocent? I find that incredible.

Then you haven't been paying attention to his contributions to this thread, or to other topics that involve race.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

You really think there's no remaining room for any interpretation of Arbery as innocent? I find that incredible.

I watched the video last night. I expected a bit of bias from NYT and noticed a couple of things. Of course, being NYT it was really well put together. The maps really cleared up the layout of the area for me.

What I mean is that his every action was that of a cornered criminal.

Our standards for that community are so low that we lose sight of a very, very basic fact here:

This. is. not. how. normal. people. resolve. a. situation. like. this.

And this is why people keep saying this would never happen with a white guy, because that's nearly true. There are a few white guys who'd behave this stupidly, but it's rare. This level of reckless stupidity is so common in the black community that nobody feels it can actually be called out, and endless excuses have to be made, everyone else in the situation has to be blamed instead, etc.

This man trespassed into a house. He then BOLTED when he became aware that someone was calling cops on him. He then ran up and down the road when he should have known the jig was up, and even when it finally got to the point where he was surrounded by multiple armed men, he still absolutely refused to finally, at long last, act with a shred of intelligence. A single shred of decency.

All he had to do was have the maturity and self-control at that point to say, you know what? You got me. I'll face the music and sit here until the cops arrive, which it sounds like was just a few seconds away.

They probably wouldn't have even been able to bust him all that hard.

He went so far as to physically charge a man with a shotgun, start punching him, and tried to wrestle the gun away from him. That is insane. The fact that someone who would behave in this way has a single defender outside of his own immediate family is a JOKE. And it says some very dark things about where our society is at nowadays.

I shudder to think what he might have been prepared to do with that shotgun if he'd gained control over it. I also wonder what sort of media coverage that version of events would've gotten.

Now his life is over and multiple other lives, including a two year old child, an entire neighborhood to some degree, etc. - these lives lay in ruins to one degree or another.

Because he couldn't STOP and face the *********** music. He couldn't even do the alternate style of being a shady criminal where he tried to smooth talk and lie his way out of it, which honestly probably would've worked. What a total, irredeemable piece of garbage.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

This. is. not. how. normal. people. resolve. a. situation. like. this.

You're right. Chasing down and murdering an unarmed man is indeed not normal.

I shudder to think what he might have been prepared to do with that shotgun if he'd gained control over it.

I'm wondering what you think he could have done that's worse than murdering an unarmed man. Summoned Satan, perhaps?

 

[Skeptic Tank]

You're right. Chasing down and murdering an unarmed man is indeed not normal.



I'm wondering what you think he could have done that's worse than murdering an unarmed man. Summoned Satan, perhaps?

A person can be a very violent, dangerous, destructive and massive POS all while unarmed.

 

[carlitos]

“You cannot reason someone out of something he or she was not reasoned into.”

 

[Dave Rogers]

You really think there's no remaining room for any interpretation of Arbery as innocent?

Well, as they say, the guilty flee when armed men pursueth.

Dave

 

[Meadmaker]

The Jury got it right in both these cases.

While Casey Anthony might have gotten away with murder, the fact is that the prosecution never had the evidence to convict her, and the Jury came down on the side of not beyond reasonable doubt. The defense created reasonable doubt, and the Prosecution couldn't combat it resulting in a correct legal decision, even if it wasn't the correct one for what really happened.

With Zimmerman, the Prosecution simply could not undermine the claim to self defense. All the evidence presented in court supported the claim, and the prosecution was never going to win it. I know a lot of people believe it was the wrong decision, but it was the correct one based on the evidence presented to the Jury in the courtroom.

I didn't follow the Zimmerman case extremely closely. As best I can tell, the huge, huge, difference between the two is that Zimmerman may have been harassing Martin, but he didn't initiate violence. He was just being a jerk.

In this case, by attempting their citizens arrest, blocking his path, and pulling out a shotgun, the McMichaels initiated a violent confrontation with Arbery.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

A person can be a very violent, dangerous, destructive and massive POS all while unarmed.

It's just that in this case they decided to arm themselves.

Incidentally, can I just point out that in this thread you've previously argued that the McMichaels acting stupidly can be attributed to not thinking clearly in the heat of the moment? Just thought that might be relevant to some of your recent posts, if anybody was still under the impression that your arguments were even vaguely rational, like sir drinks-a-lot evidently was.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

In both this and the Zimmerman case, as well as others, there always seems to be this implication that you really cannot confront a black person about their bad behavior without expecting a physical assault to result from doing so.

If you do confront them, it's ultimately your fault for getting assaulted because this is an understood thing.

Very insulting and racist, tbh.

 

[JoeMorgue]

It's obvious to the racists. Arbery was not thinking clearly because blacks are barely human animals with no impulse control who will launch into fits of black rage. The McMichaels were not thinking clearly because they were facing down, with only shotgun which your average black man can take 3 or 4 shots to the chest from and not even slow down it has been said, a black man who at any moment might turn into an unstoppable rage monsters.

The mythology of "Black Rage" used to justify "White Fear" in a perfect feedback loop.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I didn't follow the Zimmerman case extremely closely. As best I can tell, the huge, huge, difference between the two is that Zimmerman may have been harassing Martin, but he didn't initiate violence. He was just being a jerk.

No the difference is that there is a video of this.

 

[Dave Rogers]

In both this and the Zimmerman case, as well as others, there always seems to be this implication that you really cannot confront a black person about their bad behavior without expecting a physical assault to result from doing so.

If you do confront them, it's ultimately your fault for getting assaulted because this is an understood thing.

Yes, that's it, of course. It's absolutely nothing to do with carrying out an unlawful assault with a deadly weapon on an unarmed man, being guilty of a felony by virtue of doing so, and repeatedly forcing a confrontation with someone who was trying hard to avoid one until it became clear to him that he wasn't going to be allowed to escape, because that might involve admitting that in this case the black person was really quite harmless and the white people were the dangerous, violent, stupid thugs. And the fact that the law is perfectly clear on who was at fault is also irrelevant, because black people shouldn't have the right to self defense, so any response by them to obvious aggression from good white folks is just proof that they're little better than dangerous animals.

And none of this is in any way related to racism, either.

Right.

Dave

 

[whoanellie]

In none of those cases did the victim struggle with his killer. In this case you have an ex-cop claiming that he was pursuing a criminal suspect, and a fight over control of a shotgun. I think a Southern small-town jury will be looking for an excuse to let them off, and I think the defense will try hard to give it to them.

While I wouldn't call it a 'struggle', McGlockton did initiate a physical confrontation with Drejka by shoving him to the ground. Arguably, the Drejka video was far more favorable to the defendant than this one.

But that is irrelevant unless you are now contending that only in cases where there is a struggle can 'the defense can say and do just about anything ..' or only cases where there is a struggle turn into circuses. Or, maybe it's only in cases with a struggle in small Southern towns?

The defense usually does try hard to present the best case that they can. There are laws, rules of evidence, and a judge who can, and typically does, put significant restrictions on what a defense attorney can do.

I don't know what will happen in this trial - if there is one - and neither do you.

 

[Meadmaker]

What I mean is that his every action was that of a cornered criminal.

Our standards for that community are so low that we lose sight of a very, very basic fact here:

This. is. not. how. normal. people. resolve. a. situation. like. this.

And this is why people keep saying this would never happen with a white guy, because that's nearly true. There are a few white guys who'd behave this stupidly, but it's rare. This level of reckless stupidity is so common in the black community that nobody feels it can actually be called out, and endless excuses have to be made, everyone else in the situation has to be blamed instead, etc.

This man trespassed into a house. He then BOLTED when he became aware that someone was calling cops on him. He then ran up and down the road when he should have known the jig was up, and even when it finally got to the point where he was surrounded by multiple armed men, he still absolutely refused to finally, at long last, act with a shred of intelligence. A single shred of decency.

All he had to do was have the maturity and self-control at that point to say, you know what? You got me. I'll face the music and sit here until the cops arrive, which it sounds like was just a few seconds away.

They probably wouldn't have even been able to bust him all that hard.

He went so far as to physically charge a man with a shotgun, start punching him, and tried to wrestle the gun away from him. That is insane. The fact that someone who would behave in this way has a single defender outside of his own immediate family is a JOKE. And it says some very dark things about where our society is at nowadays.

I shudder to think what he might have been prepared to do with that shotgun if he'd gained control over it. I also wonder what sort of media coverage that version of events would've gotten.

Now his life is over and multiple other lives, including a two year old child, an entire neighborhood to some degree, etc. - these lives lay in ruins to one degree or another.

Because he couldn't STOP and face the *********** music. He couldn't even do the alternate style of being a shady criminal where he tried to smooth talk and lie his way out of it, which honestly probably would've worked. What a total, irredeemable piece of garbage.

More classic CT thinking. Always interpret every piece of evidence in a way that matches the conspiracy narrative. In this case, it isn't really a "conspiracy", as such, but it's the same sort of thought process. Start from a conclusion, and force the evidence to fit that conclusion.

So, he notes that all of Arbery's actions were consistent with those of a cornered criminal. He's right, except that the key portion of that phrase is "cornered", not "criminal". He behaves like a cornered person who is in fear.

My favorite portion of the post was "I shudder to think what he might have been prepared to do with that shotgun if he'd gained control over it." Indeed, that would have been horrible. A white man might have died. Thank God we were spared that tragedy. Skeptic Tank's version of events is that we had a near tragedy, but everything turned out ok, until the media circus started and now lives will be ruined by the conspirators in media and government.

And of course, all this could have been avoided if Arbery had just behaved normally when confronted with a man holding a shotgun. Skeptic Tank doesn't give any thought to an alternative way of avoiding this problem, which is to not pick up a shotgun.

 

[carlitos]

When the mission is to secure the existence of [white] people and a future for white children, the black guy dying isn't so much a side effect as it is the desired outcome. Obviously, that view is quite myopic in that a violent racist apartheid society isn't going to be secure for white children in the long term. But no one ever won a bet by assuming that racists or conspiracy theorists would act strategically.

 

[Bob001]

.....
I don't know what will happen in this trial - if there is one - and neither do you.

Of course we don't know what will happen. But there is a big clue in the fact that multiple levels of local law enforcement had already determined that what the McMichaels did was justified and closed the case, and the state only took a second look after the video surfaced. The defense only needs to convince one juror to think like the original authorities.

 

[Joe Random]

What I mean is that his every action was that of a cornered criminal.

Our standards for that community are so low that we lose sight of a very, very basic fact here:

This. is. not. how. normal. people. resolve. a. situation. like. this.

And this is why people keep saying this would never happen with a white guy, because that's nearly true. There are a few white guys who'd behave this stupidly, but it's rare. This level of reckless stupidity is so common in the black community that nobody feels it can actually be called out, and endless excuses have to be made, everyone else in the situation has to be blamed instead, etc.

This man trespassed into a house. He then BOLTED when he became aware that someone was calling cops on him. He then ran up and down the road when he should have known the jig was up, and even when it finally got to the point where he was surrounded by multiple armed men, he still absolutely refused to finally, at long last, act with a shred of intelligence. A single shred of decency.

All he had to do was have the maturity and self-control at that point to say, you know what? You got me. I'll face the music and sit here until the cops arrive, which it sounds like was just a few seconds away.

They probably wouldn't have even been able to bust him all that hard.

He went so far as to physically charge a man with a shotgun, start punching him, and tried to wrestle the gun away from him. That is insane. The fact that someone who would behave in this way has a single defender outside of his own immediate family is a JOKE. And it says some very dark things about where our society is at nowadays.

I shudder to think what he might have been prepared to do with that shotgun if he'd gained control over it. I also wonder what sort of media coverage that version of events would've gotten.

Now his life is over and multiple other lives, including a two year old child, an entire neighborhood to some degree, etc. - these lives lay in ruins to one degree or another.

Because he couldn't STOP and face the *********** music. He couldn't even do the alternate style of being a shady criminal where he tried to smooth talk and lie his way out of it, which honestly probably would've worked. What a total, irredeemable piece of garbage.

No illusion that this will make a difference to the quoted poster, so it's for the rest of people.

I'm fairly heavy on the 'law and order' side of things. I've never been in the military or LE, but have family members who were/are. This case illustrates for me precisely why we have a police force, and why we shouldn't let random **** tards decide to play citizen cop. This isn't a case where a homeowner thinks someone is trying to break in, this isn't a case where someone spies people trying to break into his car in the middle of the night, and had nothing to do with self defense until they made it that way. You've seen someone you think has been doing <RandomBadStuff> and has been caught on camera. You call the cops, give description and directions, and LET THEM DO THEIR JOB!

I utterly reject the notion that it's up to the common citizenry to enforce justice in what was at most a property crime to a third party, especially when you (at least think you) know who the person is and have them on tape. They created the situation unnecessarily, period end. Whether or not they intended to cause harm to him, they themselves created the circumstances that harm would come to /someone/ by chasing after a person AFTER the cops had been called, and making sure to arm themselves up before doing so.

These ******* yokels are one of the sorts of people who started me rethinking my position on gun control. Firearms were never a big deal when I was growing up - you just handled them responsibly and with care, and you'd be fine, so why do people get so freaked out about them? Well, as I got older I saw - the LMOE jerkoffs who think that their gun is the last thing standing between themselves and utter social anarchy.

 

[TomB]

This. is. not. how. normal. people. resolve. a. situation. like. this.

It's not normal to chase people down the street with shotguns.

Therefore it is not normal for people to be faced with people confronting them with shotguns who have repeatedly blocked their escape.

This situation is abnormal. There is no standard set of actions that a "normal" person might do to resolve an abnormal situation.

 

[Bob001]

We can be sure that some of the prospective jurors will buy into this:

Far-right and neo-Nazi groups are spreading racist and false information about a black jogger who was fatally shot in Georgia to promote their agendas on social media platforms, according to organizations that monitor online extremist activity.

The campaigns gained traction after the release this month of a video showing the moments before Ahmaud Arbery, 25, was shot dead in February. Two white men were arrested and charged in the shooting after the video drew widespread attention to the incident.

Some of the online posts, which include racist language, memes and graphics, claim that Arbery was carrying a hammer and wearing boots when he was killed, as the groups try to create false narratives about his death, analysts said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...cde428-962b-11ea-82b4-c8db161ff6e5_story.html

 

[Olmstead]

In both this and the Zimmerman case, as well as others, there always seems to be this implication that you really cannot confront a black person about their bad behavior without expecting a physical assault to result from doing so.

If you do confront them, it's ultimately your fault for getting assaulted because this is an understood thing.

Very insulting and racist, tbh.

You cannot unlawfully pursue and try to detain a person while holding a firearm without expecting a physical assault to result from doing so, especially if you refuse to stop the moment it becomes obvious that the person is unwilling to comply.