Jogging in Georgia while black.

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SuburbanTurkey said:
NYTimes puts together timeline of final minutes of Arbery's life based on the surveillance cameras, 911 calls, and cell-phone footage. This is the first reporting I've seen that coordinates all these pieces together. I found the street map footage very helpful for understanding how the killers and their victim ended up at the final location.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007142853/ahmaud-arbery-video-911-georgia.html?smid=pl-share
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All I get is a never-ending circle on the screen :mad:
 
lionking said:
Indeed. It also shows that the first shot was fired before Arbery tries to grab Travis’ gun. Open and shut.
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I wouldn't call it open and shut. It shows that the first shot was fired before Arbery grabbed his gun, but I think Arbery was reaching for it, i.e. trying to grab.

One of the things I learned in the video is that the first shot also hit Mr. Arbery in the torso (I don't remember exactly where.) I assume they can know that by comparing the angle of the gun and the wounds?

So all that fight was after Arbery had already been shot.

I do think that the timing of the shots would make it somewhat harder for Travis to claim self defense. The fact that Arbery was hit by the shot means that the gun was definitely pointed at Arbery. That ought to remove any pretense that Travis was just exercising his second amendment rights by hanging out with his shotgun, as any good American would on a Sunday afternoon.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Of course it's a bunch of people engaging in context denial. Ah yes, a couple of 12 year old white boys in the daytime walking around my property is exactly as suspicious and concerning as a 25 year old black guy with a big poofy haircut, shirtless.
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So... is it the shirtless part that you find concerning or the poofy hair?
 
OK, I' have seen it now.

It is clear from the video that Travis McMichael shot Arbury first - you can see McMichael left of the left-front edge of the pickup truck, and Arbury is at least 3/4 of the width of the truck (about 5 ft) away when the first shot is fired. It is obvious that Arbury attacked McMichael in self-defense because he was being shot at.

This is damning for the McMichaels'. It shows that they lied in their statements to Police; what they actually did was hunt Arbury down and murder him in cold blood.
 
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SuburbanTurkey said:
NYTimes puts together timeline of final minutes of Arbery's life based on the surveillance cameras, 911 calls, and cell-phone footage. This is the first reporting I've seen that coordinates all these pieces together. I found the street map footage very helpful for understanding how the killers and their victim ended up at the final location.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007142853/ahmaud-arbery-video-911-georgia.html?smid=pl-share
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That is well put together.

I was thinking Greg had mixed up Burford and Holmes in the police report. But Roddy says he was on his lawn when he saw the McMichaels chasing Arbery and he go in his car to follow and record what was going on. Roddy lives on Burford about three houses from the intersection. He could possibly see the intersection from his front lawn, but it would be a bit narrow and he would have had to look at just the right time.

I think it makes more sense that Greg was right and they caught up to Arbery running down Burford. That means they chased him up Burford. Arbery ran back and then went up Holmes. They chased him Holmes and then Arbery turned back again to run the other way. Then they cut him off at the end of Holmes.

If Roddy's intention in joining the chase was to video what was happening, I think there must be more to his video than what has been released. He cooperated with police after the incident and they downloaded data from his phone. So the police should have the full video.

There should also be more to the English video from the day of the killing.

Perez may also have a video because he told English in October that he was installing a security camera and that he would point it toward English's property to help keep a watch on things.
 
lionking said:
I’ve done a lot of running and spent a lot of time with other runners. I’ve never taken a cellphone with me and I’ve never seen a fellow runner with one. These were serious runners as Arbery was reported to be. Why do you need a cellphone on a run? For me and many runners it is a perfect opportunity not to carry a phone.
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I'm speculating, but I think that perhaps Arbery wasn't a "serious runner" in the sense you seem to imply. I think he was more of a "serious athlete". I get the impression that running was for conditioning, not ultra-marathons. Like I said, it's conjecture on my part, but given that he played football, it seems like running as a part of a general health routine might make more sense. My observations are totally anecdotal.... but I've noticed that people kitted out looking like they're training for a marathon don't carry phones or water or anything else with them, but people kitted out for a jog frequently do.
 
In the NYT video, Roddy says he was sitting in his front yard and jumps in his truck to follow the McMichaels. That seem odd to anyone else? I don't normally go driving and filming when I see a buddy driving down the street. Methinks Roddy knew more than he is letting on about what was about to happen.
 
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Athyrio said:
Ah, c'mon man. You'd say that w/o checking.? Nah, not really, right?
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I will confirm that several of Skeptic Tank's posts have very strongly implied it. At the very least, he has essentially speculated that because Arbery was black, he was definitely up to no good (criminal thug is the term he used, IIRC), and therefore the McMichaelses were perfectly justified in chasing him down (it was the right thing for them to do to protect their neighborhood), and that Travis is justified in shooting Arbery because it was self defense.
 
Athyrio said:
Simply put, I do not accept the idea that he was there merely to get water. He may have gotten water on one of the occasions but to come back at night in a vehicle - now what?
I was just making light of the idea that he just stopped in for water. Nothing more. I am not saying whatsoever that he should have been shot or even detained.
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I missed this part - when did he go back in a vehicle?

Also, what's the relevance?
 
Bob001 said:
There is no doubt that Zimmerman was stalking Martin. He said so himself on his 911 call. We only have his account of what happened after that. Whether he confronted Martin and Martin defended himself, or whether Martin confronted a suspicious stranger who was following him in the dark, the fact is that Zimmerman created the circumstances that caused Martin's death. Zimmerman didn't have to be where he was, and he shouldn't have been. He got away with murder.
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While I have no interest in re-litigating this case, it's easy enough to go and get the facts by watching the actual case on YouTube, I have highlighted the incorrect parts of your post.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
That is well put together.

I was thinking Greg had mixed up Burford and Holmes in the police report. But Roddy says he was on his lawn when he saw the McMichaels chasing Arbery and he go in his car to follow and record what was going on. Roddy lives on Burford about three houses from the intersection. He could possibly see the intersection from his front lawn, but it would be a bit narrow and he would have had to look at just the right time.

I think it makes more sense that Greg was right and they caught up to Arbery running down Burford. That means they chased him up Burford. Arbery ran back and then went up Holmes. They chased him Holmes and then Arbery turned back again to run the other way. Then they cut him off at the end of Holmes.

If Roddy's intention in joining the chase was to video what was happening, I think there must be more to his video than what has been released. He cooperated with police after the incident and they downloaded data from his phone. So the police should have the full video.

There should also be more to the English video from the day of the killing.

Perez may also have a video because he told English in October that he was installing a security camera and that he would point it toward English's property to help keep a watch on things.
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Indeed, I heard on the radio this morning that there is more of Roddy's cellphone camera footage, about 4 minutes, that will probably not be released to the public.
 
Thermal said:
In the NYT video, Roddy says he was sitting in his front yard and jumps in his truck to follow the McMichaels. That seem odd to anyone else? I don't normally go driving and filming when I see a buddy driving down the street. Methinks Roddy knew more than he is letting on about what was about to happen.
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Meh. If I saw a couple of my neighbors hop into a truck with guns and go tearing off down the road after a guy on foot... I might very well think there was something that needed to be filmed.

I wouldn't necessarily have any notion of which party was in the wrong, but pretty sure someone in that scenario needs to have their actions captured.
 
Bob001 said:
Defense attorneys are allowed to do pretty much anything they can to deflate overwhelming evidence against their clients. Judges don't want to be accused on appeal of impairing a defense. Pointing to a non-existent alternate suspect, calling witnesses liars and claiming police misconduct are basic tactics. In this case the lawyers are no doubt going to claim that Arbery was a dangerous criminal trying to escape, and the McMichaels were heroic citizens defending their community from a predator. And that's what the jury will be allowed to hear.
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This remains a gross misrepresentation of how trials actually work. Regarding alternate suspects, are you familiar with the Russ Faria case? In many cases, defense attorneys are prevented from bringing up real alternate suspects.
https://lawecommons.luc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2517&context=luclj
The prosecutor is going to fight like hell to exclude evidence of Arbery's prior bad conduct on the grounds of relevance. We don't know how the judge will rule and what the jury will hear.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Meh. If I saw a couple of my neighbors hop into a truck with guns and go tearing off down the road after a guy on foot... I might very well think there was something that needed to be filmed.

I wouldn't necessarily have any notion of which party was in the wrong, but pretty sure someone in that scenario needs to have their actions captured.
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From what I gathered, Arbery was well down the road, and the McMichaels already driving (not just having grabbed guns) when they drove by Roddy. He actually would have no reason to associate them driving with the jogger. Could've been going on a beer run for all he knew.

Then Roddy tries to head off Arbery. Seems Roddy understood exactly what was going on. But he had no reason to know any of this at the time as we do now.
 
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