Jogging in Georgia while black.

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No you see it's easy.

When you see a black person walking down the street and lock your car doors, that's just "living in reality."

When black people get shot in the street and no charges are filed over and over you proudly brag about how "I don't see race, why are you bring race, into this?"
 
Bogative said:
We went from "murdering unarmed black men for refusing to explain why they are jogging on white roads is not a crime" in the OP to learning that the "jogger" was not out for a jog, but rather, was a trespasser recognized from previous trespassing. We also learned that he was shot after darting across the road and trying to remove a gun from someone else's hands.

And, in typical ISF fashion, there are a whole lot of skeptics on here who know for certain the motivation of the two white men is racism based solely on the skin color of all involved. I'm not sure if you're one of them, I haven't had the time to read every post.
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You're ******* kidding, right ?

"40 pages in, and it continues to be a story about a well documented murder."

Nothing you wrote changes that. :rolleyes:
 
Skeptic Tank said:
My understanding is that the first call was made by Travis, the second one was made by Greg as they were in the truck tailing Ahmaud. The "black male running down the road" was quick wording in the heat of a chase, and you're overthinking it and looking to frame everything as racism.
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Travis did not make the first 911 call at around 1:08 pm on 23 Feb. 20 .

The father, Greg, in the Police report claimed it was he who told Travis that he saw the jogger "hauling ass" down the street and then both pursued him in a truck with a shotgun and a Magnum.

The second 911 call at around 1:14 pm was made by Greg seconds before his son killed the "black guy running down the street".


In the 11th Feb. 20 incident Greg never saw the person who ran in the unfinished building because it was Travis who told his father about the event and then they both went back ARMED to the construction site in the presence of a neighbor Perez.

The evidence so far shows that the McMichaels were always ready or prepared to use deadly force against anyone who they believe were breaking the law.

The mere fact that we have two 911 calls then if the case goes to trial then it can be decided which one of the callers acted reasonably.
 
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Hey Guys.

I'm checking the law and it turns out that calling 911 first doesn't let murder black people in the street. I know, I know, I was shocked as well but that is what it says.
 
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It doesn't matter who called 911 when.

It doesn't matter what crimes Arbery might have committed prior to this encounter.

None of that matters. We might as well be talking about whether or not he flossed regularly or got enough folic acid in his diet.

He was not in the process of committing or fleeing from a crime that meets the legal requirements for citizens arrest at the time he was challenged/questioned/attempted to be detain by the McMichaels. Therefore when they put two shotgun holes in his chest, that was murder.

These are the facts and they are not up for debate.
 
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Bogative said:
learning that the "jogger" was not out for a jog
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Dave Rogers said:
This is an outright, bare faced lie.
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I don't think any of us has the evidence to make that claim. It seems to me unlikely that he was out for a jog. Although he had reportedly jogged in the neighborhood before, he walked into the construction site, looked pretty relaxed (like he hadn't been jogging) while he was inside, and then ran our of there like a bat out of hell. To me this suggests he was spooked by something and knew he shouldn't be there.

DISCLAIMER: I do not think black people are non-human and deserve to be killed.
 
Okay. You can't shoot people running away from committing a misdemeanor either.

If he was "fleeing" and not jogging that just puts us right back at the "Still murder" point we started at 40 pages ago.

The whole "Oh but this and that proves he was acting guilty" is just so much more pissing on a dead man's grave.

People don't get to kill you for acting guilty. Hell they don't get to kill you for being guilty except in specific circumstances that don't apply to this.
 
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JoeMorgue said:
Okay. You can't shoot people running away from committing a misdemeanor either.

If he was "fleeing" and not jogging that just puts us right back at the "Still murder" point we started at 40 pages ago.

The whole "Oh but this and that proves he was acting guilty" is just so much more pissing on a dead man's grave.

People don't get to kill you for acting guilty. Hell they don't get to kill you for being guilty except in specific circumstances that don't apply to this.
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However, they do get to kill you for attacking them and trying to wrest control of their firearm away from them.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
However, they do get to kill you for attacking them and trying to wrest control of their firearm away from them.
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No, they don't. The initial crime was McMichaels and son committing assault with a deadly weapon - defined as, and clearly correct in this case, actions that would make a reasonable person fear for his or her life. Once that assault has been committed, Arbery's subsequent actions are, legally speaking, self-defense; he attempted to disarm the person committing the assault with a deadly weapon. OK, he failed to defend himself; but in law, he was not the person committing a crime at this point, but the person defending himself from a crime being committed upon him. McMichaels and son, in fact, were felons in commission of a felony, Arbery was attempting to prevent them from doing so, and Arbery would have been within his rights to make a citizen's arrest. Your view of this incident is an almost perfect inversion of reality.

Dave
 
And we're right back to "The black guy dared to fight back when I rolled on his 2 on 1 with guns, therefore I feared for my life because he's a big scawwy black criminal thug, therefore I shot him."

You can't illegally create a scenario where the person is going to react, then claim that reaction makes you fear for your life and shoot them.

And this point it is being functionally argued that if the McMichaels had tossed one of the guns to Arbery and he caught it they could have shot him for being brandishing a weapon a them.
 
We keep having to explain this over and over in different scenarios.

No you can't shove a shotgun in a black person's face and then shoot them because the act like how every human being who has a shotgun pointed in their face is going to act.

No you can't demand to see the black person's ID and then shoot them because you feared for your life because they started reaching toward their waist to get the ID that you just asked for.

No you can't walk into the wrong apartment and shoot the person sitting there because someone being an your apartment in some alternative universe where you're not an idiot who walks into the wrong apartment makes you fear for your life.

No you can't scream at the black guy to get on the ground while your partner screams at him to back away and then shoot when he doesn't somehow obtain a Quantum Superposition of those two states after .0004 seconds.
 
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sir drinks-a-lot said:
I don't think any of us has the evidence to make that claim. It seems to me unlikely that he was out for a jog. Although he had reportedly jogged in the neighborhood before, he walked into the construction site, looked pretty relaxed (like he hadn't been jogging) while he was inside, and then ran our of there like a bat out of hell. To me this suggests he was spooked by something and knew he shouldn't be there.

DISCLAIMER: I do not think black people are non-human and deserve to be killed.
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In the running community, there is a well known hatred for calling it "jogging". No matter the speed, the majority of runners will say they went for a run, and will be angry if you described them as a jogger. This is the only frame of reference where I can see you watching a man in running clothes go for a run and claim that's evidence he wasn't out for a jog.
 
Still want to know what kind of shotgun Travis had. If his claim is that he was struggling for control of the gun, it seems implausible that he was keeping his finger on the trigger accidentally. I mean, I would think you would instinctively get your trigger finger off to get a better grip.

Also, whether or not it was an autoloader is crucial. If it was a pump and he had to fully rack it to eject and chamber, twice, with his finger on the trigger, he can abandon any pretense of accidental firing during the struggle.
 
JoeMorgue said:
We keep having to explain this over and over in different scenarios.

No you can't shove a shotgun in a black person's face and then shoot them because the act like how every human being who has a shotgun pointed in their face is going to act.

No you can't demand to see the black person's ID and then shoot them because you feared for your life because they started reaching toward their waist to get the ID that you just asked for.

No you can't walk into the wrong apartment and shoot the person sitting there because someone being an your apartment in some alternative universe where you're not an idiot who walks into the wrong apartment makes you fear for your life.

No you can't scream at the black guy to get on the ground while your partner screams at him to back away and then shoot when he doesn't somehow obtain a Quantum Superposition of those two states after .0004 seconds.
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Don't forget the phone was conveniently muted to 911 at this point. No idea what Travis was saying to Arbery, so he could have been verbally threatening him. Arbery might have thought he had no option except attempt to wrest the gun from him.
 
Disbelief said:
Don't forget the phone was conveniently muted to 911 at this point. No idea what Travis was saying to Arbery, so he could have been verbally threatening him. Arbery might have thought he had no option except attempt to wrest the gun from him.
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According to Greg McMichael's testimony, Arbery had already tried to run away from them. The killers chased him down and initiated an assault. I don't know what other options he had at that point.
 
wareyin said:
In the running community, there is a well known hatred for calling it "jogging". No matter the speed, the majority of runners will say they went for a run, and will be angry if you described them as a jogger. This is the only frame of reference where I can see you watching a man in running clothes go for a run and claim that's evidence he wasn't out for a jog.
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I'm not sure I'd characterize what he was wearing as running clothes, but he may have worn that to jog or run. But if I saw someone walking down the road wearing what Arbery(sp?) was wearing I wouldn't take that as evidence he was running or jogging.
 
wareyin said:
According to Greg McMichael's testimony, Arbery had already tried to run away from them. The killers chased him down and initiated an assault. I don't know what other options he had at that point.
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I've been following, I'm just wondering if there was also a verbal component that made it explicit that he had no other option. From the very beginning of this, I've believed this is murder and I am not looking to give these lunatics any leeway. Arbery had every right to defend himself whether anything was said or not, just curious if it was verbalized as well.
 
JoeMorgue said:
It doesn't matter who called 911 when.
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Well, it does if that can speak to whether or not the McMichaels were specifically targeting Arbrey because he was black. There are calls to try this as a hate crime. Whether or not the McMichaels are actually racist will necessarily factor in to this, and the second call may factor in to that determination.
 
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