Jogging in Georgia while black.

[Emily's Cat]

If you hooked up the McMichaels to a polygraph or wrapped them in Wonder Woman's Lasso or injected them with truth serum and asked them if they had targeted him for being black, they would probably tell you "No" and pass the test.

I also firmly think that the odds of them reacting exactly the same way to a white person jogging down the street in the exact same circumstances is minimal and the odds of a white person being dead via shotgun blast at the end of the alternative encounter being functionally zero.

Yes, exactly.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Very damn strange.

I keep getting these non-drug-assisted flashbacks to Stormfront, but I'm actually in ISF.

Next up: why the KKK were right to castrate Judge Aarons...

That's life now. Nationalists are a large component of mainstream conservative politics now. The basement doors are wide open.

 

[CORed]

I suppose we will hear more as the evidence unfolds.

To me it sounds more like two morons with guns who have seen too many action films and end up killing someone.

I don't know about the law in Georgia, but around here that would constitute a crime.

Well yes, and it seems that one of the morons had forgotten that he is no longer a cop.

As far as I'm concerned, it really doesn't matter whether Arbery was there just to look around or he was looking for something to steal. Unless he was caught in the act of stealing something, and he wasn't, there was no justification for a citizens arrest, confronting him with guns brandisedh was assault, and the resulting death was murder. Case closed.

What make it more damning is that the only documented theft in the area was the gun stolen from the unlocked vehicle of the dumb-ass ex cop, and there is not one shred of evidence that Arberry had anything to do with it. I have no doubt that the perpetrators here believed that Arbery was a criminal, but I suspect that the color of his skin was the only reason they suspected that.

 

[Thermal]

The whole 'string of burglaries' is likely a euphemism for 'Travis had his his 9mm stolen'. Arbery was maybe known to have been on the open site or just in the area. Travis suspects any non-resident face of being the thief. Maybe a black face even more. He thinks (wrongly) that he is justified in confronting who he believes might be a suspect in who stole his gun.

Is that as plausible as going on a '******* hunt'? I think it's more likely, not knowing either of the McMichaels histories.

 

[JoeMorgue]

We're getting real close to the "They weren't racist, just were just bigoted and quick to judge based on skin color in a way that is functional the exact same thing as racism" hairsplit again.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Why is the whole "it's not okay to shoot and kill someone for stealing stuff" meme still going so strong in here?

For the last time (lol, if only): he. was. not. shot. for. thievery.

No matter what was or was not true about his criminality or lack thereof, no matter how legitimate confronting him was or was not, he was shot and killed for actions he took in the last few seconds of his life. Actions which included charging, punching, and wrestling for a shotgun.

The Pope could get himself shot doing that.

 

[Thermal]

Yeah but breaking out a gun to talk to the Pope is kind of the initial problem that escalated. The escalation came from the initiators breaking out the boom needlessly.

 

[Leftus]

It would have been nice if Chris Cuomo had asked him about the reports of copper wire being taken from the property. It would have been nice if Chris Cuomo had asked him "what led you to install the security cameras there?" and it would have been nice if he had asked him "so did anything ever go missing from that site, or was there ever any damage or vandalism?"

Why do you keep inventing crimes after the last one was shot down. Reports of wire theft? To whom? By whom? From where did you find this claim. It's almost like you are trying to get the facts to conform to your opinion and not letting your opinion conform to the facts.

As far as security cameras go, I've got 2 around my house. Not because anyone has stolen anything, but because porch pirates exist. Also, construction sites are a common target for thieves. BTW, they don't steal from the built up places, but from the stockpile areas. Also, they generally use vehicles. Nobody is jogging off with construction material.


He already answered the question, through his lawyer, that nothing was stolen or vandalized that day. The most common form of vandalism, if you are wondering, are kids sneaking into the construction site, at night, to smoke / drink away from their parents. Used to work security and assigned to various construction site. Caught 1 person trying to swipe plywood. Dozen of kids smoking / drinking.

 

[Emily's Cat]

In my opinion, the majority of this thread is a red herring. It's quibbling about whether or not Arbery might possibly be assumed to be up to no good, and whether or not the McMichaelses were maybe legitimately doing a citizen's arrest, and whether or not if we split this hair just right we get some other completely conjectured storyline, or whether or not the facts as evidenced are sufficient to determine this a hate crime. All good arguments, all entertaining in their own ways.

But let's not lose sight of the actual problem here.

The DA completely buried the entire situation, lied about what happened, and didn't even pretend to investigate the shooting of an unarmed man by civilians. The DA was perfectly willing to completely ignore the whole event until the video was released demonstrating the absolutely appalling nature of the behavior by the McMichaelses.

That's the problem. And that's where a very good argument for racial bias comes into play.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Why is the whole "it's not okay to shoot and kill someone for stealing stuff" meme still going so strong in here?

For the last time (lol, if only): he. was. not. shot. for. thievery.

No matter what was or was not true about his criminality or lack thereof, no matter how legitimate confronting him was or was not, he was shot and killed for actions he took in the last few seconds of his life. Actions which included charging, punching, and wrestling for a shotgun.

The Pope could get himself shot doing that.

Who are you even arguing with here.

McMichaels committed murder because they had no lawful reason to conduct an armed citizen's arrest. In the fight between Arbery and McMichael, the Arbery had the lawful self defense claim.

The McMichaels committed aggravated assault with firearms, and during that aggravated assault, Arbery was shot and killed. Open and shut murder case, even if the Pope did it.

Consider the armed mugger. The armed mugger has no intention of actually killing his victim. But during the mugging, the victim tries to grab the gun, and the mugger has no choice but to shoot. Did the mugger intend to kill the victim when they set out? No. Is it still murder? Of course.

The McMichaels set out to commit a crime by detaining Arbery. They might have thought they were on the right side of the law, but they weren't. During that crime, they threatened Arbery with firearms, hence aggravated assault. When Arbery reacted poorly to this, Travis shot him. That's murder.

 

[JoeMorgue]

"I didn't shoot the black guy for thieving, I just started the altercation within him for thieving and shot him when he resisted."

Even for racist apologetics that's just embarassing.

McMichaels did not have a right to arrest, detain, challenge, question, threaten, or interact with Arbery at all. Period. End of goddamn discussion.

 

[bluesjnr]

Who are you even arguing with here.

McMichaels committed murder because they had no lawful reason to conduct an armed citizen's arrest. In the fight between Arbery and McMichael, the Arbery had the lawful self defense claim.

The McMichaels committed aggravated assault with firearms, and during that aggravated assault, Arbery was shot and killed. Open and shut murder case, even if the Pope did it.

I don't think Skeptic Tank is saying awfully much different than that.

 

[Thermal]

In my opinion, the majority of this thread is a red herring. It's quibbling about whether or not Arbery might possibly be assumed to be up to no good, and whether or not the McMichaelses were maybe legitimately doing a citizen's arrest, and whether or not if we split this hair just right we get some other completely conjectured storyline, or whether or not the facts as evidenced are sufficient to determine this a hate crime. All good arguments, all entertaining in their own ways.

But let's not lose sight of the actual problem here.

The DA completely buried the entire situation, lied about what happened, and didn't even pretend to investigate the shooting of an unarmed man by civilians. The DA was perfectly willing to completely ignore the whole event until the video was released demonstrating the absolutely appalling nature of the behavior by the McMichaelses.

That's the problem. And that's where a very good argument for racial bias comes into play.

Some real Truth with a capital T here. But that's not why posters post on LWB threads. You see the discussion? That's why they're here. I tbought political corruption and open carry would be the topics early on. But no. Its always this.

 

[Crossbow]

Why is the whole "it's not okay to shoot and kill someone for stealing stuff" meme still going so strong in here?

For the last time (lol, if only): he. was. not. shot. for. thievery.

No matter what was or was not true about his criminality or lack thereof, no matter how legitimate confronting him was or was not, he was shot and killed for actions he took in the last few seconds of his life. Actions which included charging, punching, and wrestling for a shotgun.

The Pope could get himself shot doing that.

You are wrong again.

If a person is attacked by someone with clearly deadly intentions (such as the brandishing of firearms), then it is quite legal for the person being attacked to fight the attackers.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Some real Truth with a capital T here. But that's not why posters post on LWB threads. You see the discussion? That's why they're here. I tbought political corruption and open carry would be the topics early on. But no. Its always this.

To be fair, outside in the real world, the conversation is very much concerned about what appears to be an openly corrupt prosecutor covering up a murder.

There are some here who would rather JAQ off or propose counterfactuals than confront this reality.

Those that would deny systematic racism now find themselves in the position of either having to defend this absurd murder defense, which is increasingly absurd, or admit that the prosecutor completely mischaracterized the course of events.

 

[bluesjnr]

"I didn't shoot the black guy for thieving, I just started the altercation within him for thieving and shot him when he resisted."

Even for racist apologetics that's just embarassing.

McMichaels did not have a right to arrest, detain, challenge, question, threaten, or interact with Arbery at all. Period. End of goddamn discussion.

I, largely, agree with you but you seem to be making the case that the roadblock was set up primarily as a method to execute Arbery with malice aforethought.

I asked the question earlier and don't think you responded? I'd appreciate it if you might consider doing so.

Do you think Arbery was going to be shot, even if he hadn't have made an attempt to wrest the shot gun from McMichael?

 

[Thermal]

To be fair, outside in the real world, the conversation is very much concerned about what appears to be an openly corrupt prosecutor covering up a murder.

There are some here who would rather JAQ off or propose counterfactuals than confront this reality.

I always think that 'wink and nod, sure fellow whitey, we'll just sweep this pesky murder under the rug" thing is a cop out. But here it is, in 2020 America. Not one person involved in law enforcement seems to have blown the whistle. That's some widespread culpability

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I always think that 'wink and nod, sure fellow whitey, we'll just sweep this pesky murder under the rug" thing is a cop out. But here it is, in 2020 America. Not one person involved in law enforcement seems to have blown the whistle. That's some widespread culpability

I could also easily see this as cop unity. Cops take care of their own, even when they obviously screw up.

At the end of the day, it likely will be impossible to suss out exactly what flavor of corruption this is. It's probably a bit of both.

 

[carlitos]

Why do you keep inventing crimes after the last one was shot down.

That's how you spread misinformation. You make up a story, you post it an your friendly neighborhood white supremacist site with a title "meme this." Then someone makes a meme out of it, and some of the others go to other places and spread the rumor like it's true. Pretty soon your uncle has read it on Facebook, and he totally knows a guy who saw it happen.

ST isn't remotely interested in the truth; he's advancing a white nationalist agenda by any means necessary. Including lying out of his ass on this forum.

 

[Thermal]

I could also easily see this as cop unity. Cops take care of their own, even when they obviously screw up.

At the end of the day, it probably will be impossible to suss out exactly what flavor of corruption this is. It's probably a bit of both.

Remember when we thought that police would naturally hold their own to a higher standard? Yeah, me neither.