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Jogging in Georgia while black.

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Skeptic Tank said:
In neither case were the deceased "defending themselves against an armed assailant"

Both Trayvon and Ahmaud knew exactly what their targets were: snitches. Not threats. Snitches. The attacks in both cases were retaliation for trying to get them busted.
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Busted for what? You realize being black isn't actually a crime, right?
 
arthwollipot said:
Let's be clear. This was not self-defence. The two white guys actively hunted the man. They decided that he had been doing something wrong, they decided to take action, and they decided that he deserved to die.

Fortunately for them, they are now able to avail themselves of the criminal justice system - something they denied to their victim.
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What facts/evidence have convinced you that their story isn't true?

Their claim is that they loaded up to go confront this guy and try to buy time in doing so for the police to arrive and question him / arrest him - and that he then reacted in an unexpectedly rapid and violent way which necessitated a self-defense shooting.

What's disproving that in your mind? The video supports it. The lack of pre-hysteria charges supports it.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
I don't think someone legally carrying a firearm and going to legally attempt to detain someone they believe has just committed a crime
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Here's you're first problem, it isn't legal to detain a person you suspect of committing a crime in Georgia, unless that crime is a felony and the person is trying to escape. There is no evidence of either of these requirements in this case. In fact there is no evidence of Arbey breaking the law at all, let alone committing a felony. So rather than a legal attempt to detain, they were engaged in an illegal felony themselves, an attempted unlawful detention.
 
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And just for the cherry on top, aggressively pointing a gun at someone in Georgia is considered Aggravated Assault, because it's a simple assault while using a deadly weapon, and when a death occurs during an Aggravated Assault, that's considered a death during an inherently dangerous Felony, which means that the death is a Felony Murder.

Yeah, short of Jury nullification on this, they are going to jail for a long time.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
....and that he then reacted in an unexpectedly rapid and violent way which necessitated a self-defense shooting.
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Since when is a person expected to fold like a lawn chair when confronted with armed men who possibly intend to harm?
 
Ranb said:
Since when is a person expected to fold like a lawn chair when confronted with armed men who possibly intend to harm?
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His argument is basically that if a black person attempts to defend themselves against a white person holding a gun, then it's the acceptable to pull the trigger and kill them.


Of course it'd be interesting to see the knots people like said poster would tie themselves in where this a case of several black guys with gun who tried to illegally detain and then ended up shooting a white guy who was jogging through their neighbourhood because they believed he was the guy seen wandering about a building site on security footage.
 
From letter the DA wrote:

"I appreciate there is immediate pressure on your department as to the issue of 'arrest'
----

It is my professional belief the autopsy confirms what we had already viewed as shown in the video tape, with the photographs & from the witness statements taken immediately at the scene. The autopsy supports the initial opinion we gave you on February 24th, 2020 at the briefing room in the Glynn County Police Department after reviewing the evidence you had at the time. We do not see grounds for an arrest of any of the three parties.

It appears Travis McMichael, Greg McMichael, and Bryan William were following, in 'hot pursuit', a burglary suspect, with solid first hand probable cause, in their neighborhood, and asking/telling him to stop. It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived. Under Georgia Law this is perfectly legal.
It clearly appears Travis McMichael and Greg McMichael had firearms being carried in an open fashion. The investigation shows neither of them to be convicted felons or under felony supervision, they were in a motor vehicle owned by Travis McMichael. Under Georgia Law this is legal open carry.
The video made by William Bryan clearly shows the shooting in real time. From said video it appears Ahmaud Arbery was running along the right side of the McMichael truck then abruptly turns 90 degrees to the left and attacks Travis McMichael who was standing at the front left corner of the truck. A brief skirmish ensues in which it appears Arbery strikes McMichael and appears to grab the shotgun and pull it from McMichael. The 1st shot is through Arbery's right hand palm which is consistent with him grabbing and pulling the shotgun at the barrel tip, the 2nd and 3rd wounds are consistent with the struggle for the shotgun as depicted in the video, the angle of the 2nd shot with the rear of the buttstock being pushed away and down from teh right are also consistent with the upward angle of blood plume shown in the video and that McMichael was attempting to push the gun away from Arbery while Arbery was pulling it toward himself. The 3rd shot too appears to be in a struggle over the gun. The angle of the shots and the video show this was from the beginning or almost immediately became -- a fight over the shotgun.

Given the fact Arbery initiated the fight, at the point Arbery grabbed the shotgun, under Georgia Law, McMichael was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself. Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know who caused the firings. ...

... Arbery's mental health records & prior convictions help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man."
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"Waycross District Attorney George Barnhill wrote that there is video of Arbery "burglarizing a home immediately preceding the chase and confrontation""
Skeptic Tank said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Ahmaud_Arbery
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So you're that sure about the burglary? I have not read about anyone who claims Arbery stole or damaged property while in the buildling he was alleged to have entered. Without intent to commit a crime, the unlawful entry of a home or other building does not mean burglary in Georgia.

https://statelaws.findlaw.com/georgia-law/georgia-burglary-laws.html
 
Just as importantly, while we know McMichael had his finger on the trigger, we do not know who caused the firings. ...
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I thought everyone knew the person holding the damn gun is responsible for how it operated? Even the most borish anti-gun idiots (including on this forum) know this. Why are you taking the lame "gun owner not responsible for his own actions" position?
 
arthwollipot said:
Like I said earlier, in what jurisdiction is the death penalty appropriate for trespassing?
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He was not shot for trespassing, nor for being black, nor for going for a jog.

He was shot because he attacked, punched, and tried to take the firearm of a man who (legally) confronted him.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
All I know is that I can already tell that the day these guys get acquitted is going to be one of the more enjoyable anguish-harvests I've had since 2016.

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/dvCQfVR.png[/qimg]
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:dl:

So how did your prediction of the Amber Guyger trial work out?
 
Skeptic Tank said:
He was not shot for trespassing, nor for being black, nor for going for a jog.

He was shot because he attacked, punched, and tried to take the firearm of a man who (legally) confronted him.
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If he wasn’t actually wearing the junior deputy badge he got from the Cheerios box he is going to prison.
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
He was not shot for trespassing, nor for being black, nor for going for a jog.

He was shot because he attacked, punched, and tried to take the firearm of a man who (legally) confronted him.
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I thought we'd already established that brandishing a firearm is not legal.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
From letter the DA wrote:
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I get the DA's argument, but he left off a complete picture of things I would like to know.

Suppose I know I'm innocent. For a cop,there is a presumption that a cop will not arrest without probable cause and there just isn't that many cops out there. Am I required to turn myself over for every person that yells citizens arrest at me?
 
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