Jogging in Georgia while black.

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All I know is that I can already tell that the day these guys get acquitted is going to be one of the more enjoyable anguish-harvests I've had since 2016.

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pgwenthold said:
An investigator lying about the material facts of a case is willfully hindering a law enforcement officer from being able to make an arrest on a guilty party, so yes, just yes.
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The victim's mother was a law enforcement officer who was trying to make an arrest on a guilty party?
 
Skeptic Tank said:
All I know is that I can already tell that the day these guys get acquitted is going to be one of the more enjoyable anguish-harvests I've had since 2016.

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/dvCQfVR.png[/qimg]
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Yes, yes I think most know how you feel about non-white people.

I doubt you will be rejoicing, in which case it would be a bad day for you and a good day for US justice. If these idiots are set free, you may we’ll be enjoying yourself, but US justice will take another mighty blow which will leave people around the world shaking their heads in disbelief.
 
lionking said:
Yes, yes I think most know how you feel about non-white people.

I doubt you will be rejoicing, in which case it would be a bad day for you and a good day for US justice. If these idiots are set free, you may we’ll be enjoying yourself, but US justice will take another mighty blow which will leave people around the world shaking their heads in disbelief.
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Yes, a system where actual legal authorities who see all the evidence determine that no charges are appropriate and then months later within 24 hours the media and Twitter whining get MURDER CHARGES to happen in spite of that, is such a beacon of justice.

What a complete joke.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
All I know is that I can already tell that the day these guys get acquitted is going to be one of the more enjoyable anguish-harvests I've had since 2016.

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/dvCQfVR.png[/qimg]
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Gonna share the harvest with your buddies on StormFront?
 
Meadmaker said:
However, if it turns out that Arbery was a bad person after all, I would root for the guys to be able to plea bargain to a lesser charge. I would still want them in jail. I don't like the idea of people grabbing guns and deciding to use them. If you see someone you think is a criminal, grab your phone, not your gun.
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See the problem with this line of reasoning is that there's no way that they could have conclusively known that he was a "bad person" or rather that he had committed a crime. Given how completely inexcusable their reaction was it doesn't matter who the victim was because it could have, principally speaking, been anyone.

People shouldn't get a lesser sentence for randomly shooting someone to death because it is subsequently determined that the victim had committed some crime or misdeed.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Yes, a system where actual legal authorities who see all the evidence determine that no charges are appropriate and then months later within 24 hours the media and Twitter whining get MURDER CHARGES to happen in spite of that, is such a beacon of justice.

What a complete joke.
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Someone is dead. This has to go to court.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Yes, a system where actual legal authorities who see all the evidence determine that no charges are appropriate and then months later within 24 hours the media and Twitter whining get MURDER CHARGES to happen in spite of that, is such a beacon of justice.

What a complete joke.
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They just needed to be reminded that black people have rights too. It's so easy to forget sometimes, especially in Georgia.
 
Sideroxylon said:
Someone is dead. This has to go to court.
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Police show up to find dude in ski mask with knife in my house, dead on the floor from my gunshot - I called 911 10 minutes earlier and told them to hurry, someone was breaking into my house.

I've got a deep knife wound on my arm and there's blood on his knife blade. The window is broken where he came in.

Does this need to go to court? Someone is dead.
 
Meadmaker said:
If it turns out that Arbery really was a criminal and really had been caught on surveillance cameras before, doing things that he ought not be doing, I will admit that my attitude toward the men in the pickup would change.
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Mine won't. No private citizen should have the right to be judge, jury and executioner.
 
William Parcher said:
What did the victim say when he was asked what he felt was going on?
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Sorry, I thought your argument was that if he felt he was being robbed he should have just given his wallet. I think he would have. My Bayesean view of the situation puts a low probability that he thought he was being robbed based on his actions.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Police show up to find dude in ski mask with knife in my house, dead on the floor from my gunshot - I called 911 10 minutes earlier and told them to hurry, someone was breaking into my house.

I've got a deep knife wound on my arm and there's blood on his knife blade. The window is broken where he came in.

Does this need to go to court? Someone is dead.
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That’s what you get to present in court.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
If there's video showing the deceased lunging toward you, grabbing your firearm, punching you, etc. - I don't see why you should.
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Why don't you see this incident as people running down a guy out for a jog then blowing him away when he tried to defend himself from a man armed with a shotgun?

Skeptic Tank said:
Really no matter what happened prior to that, the violent actions of the deceased in those final seconds left the man with the shotgun with very little choice. He could not permit this violent man to get control of his gun.
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So if armed men chased after the victim, and another vehicle stops on the road in front of him, this does not matter?

Can you possibly see it from the dead man's point of view? Some armed men chased him down and he tried to keep a man from shooting him first by running around the vehicle stopped in the road then directly confronting the man with the shotgun?

Skeptic Tank said:
Had this guy been innocent, had it been a misunderstanding - what would've played out was him putting his hands up, stopping, and saying something like "woah woah woah! what the hell guys?! I don't know who you think I am but you're mistaken! ---- Yeah! you bet I'll wait here for the cops! Just don't frigging shoot me in the meantime! I was just out for a jog!"
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You really think that the men who chased the victim down were going to let him go and ever testify against them? Only a fool would stop for an armed gang in the street when it was possible to run away.

Skeptic Tank said:
Him evading them and then when they finally made further evasion impossible,
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The victim evading the armed men was entirely legal and sensible.

Skeptic Tank said:
attacking them - up to and including trying to get the shotgun, indicates to me very clearly they had him exactly right.
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It looked like they had little trouble gunning him down. They could have simply followed him until the police got there.

Skeptic Tank said:
He was there to prey upon that community and had done so before.
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So you're a witness to the victim's "crimes" and will testify that you knew his state of mind?

Skeptic Tank said:
He knew they were proactive civic minded gentlemen trying to protect said community, and he decided he would do whatever it took to avoid being there when the police arrived.
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Or maybe he was out for a jog?

Skeptic Tank said:
I think he knew for a certainty they were on the way. I think he would have killed the three white men without much hesitation at all, had he been able to get ahold of a firearm and do so.
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Are you suggesting that killing a person who is shooting a shotgun at you is not the proper course of action to take to save your own life while out jogging?
 
arthwollipot said:
Mine won't. No private citizen should have the right to be judge, jury and executioner.
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I don't think someone legally carrying a firearm and going to legally attempt to detain someone they believe has just committed a crime (and committed others previously) who then ends up shooting and killing the person after being physically attacked and control of their firearm being threatened, is acting as "judge, jury and executioner" - I think they're acting as a concerned citizen looking out for their neighborhood and all the people in it, trying not to let crime get a foothold in it, and then reacting to preserve their own life when the criminal decides he "can't go back to jail" and attacks.

lomiller said:
So in your view defending yourself against an armed assailant makes you a criminal and therefor fair game?
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In neither case were the deceased "defending themselves against an armed assailant"

Both Trayvon and Ahmaud knew exactly what their targets were: snitches. Not threats. Snitches. The attacks in both cases were retaliation for trying to get them busted. In this case, Ahmaud felt he had to attack to make good his escape from the area, whereas Trayvon doubled back and attacked Zimmerman out of anger when he was already home free.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
Police show up to find dude in ski mask with knife in my house, dead on the floor from my gunshot - I called 911 10 minutes earlier and told them to hurry, someone was breaking into my house.

I've got a deep knife wound on my arm and there's blood on his knife blade. The window is broken where he came in.

Does this need to go to court? Someone is dead.
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This sounds like you were attacked by an armed assailant and defended yourself. By your logic above you are clearly the criminal is that situation.
 
Skeptic Tank said:
I don't think someone legally carrying a firearm and going to legally attempt to detain someone they believe has just committed a crime (and committed others previously) who then ends up shooting and killing the person after being physically attacked and control of their firearm being threatened, is acting as "judge, jury and executioner" - I think they're acting as a concerned citizen looking out for their neighborhood and all the people in it, trying not to let crime get a foothold in it, and then reacting to preserve their own life when the criminal decides he "can't go back to jail" and attacks.
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Let's be clear. This was not self-defence. The two white guys actively hunted the man. They decided that he had been doing something wrong, they decided to take action, and they decided that he deserved to die.

Fortunately for them, they are now able to avail themselves of the criminal justice system - something they denied to their victim.
 
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