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The confirmation bias is strong in this one...

The lack of comprehension is strong in this one...

Because you think that the only reason to put in surveillance cameras was what you have stated, you then automatically assume that Mr English's reasons must match your preconceived notion. The idea that others might have a different reason doesn't seem to even enter into your thinking.

Yet again, you forgot to read. We are not talking about the benefits of camera systems. We are comparing steps specifically taken by English to secure the property from trespassers, versus steps taken solely to catch evidence against trespassers, ie: a trap. As some knucklehead noted earlier, he didn't even put up a Posted: No Trespassing sign from a dollar store. No fence, not even plywood over the door. Left the place absolutely wide open, and intentionally.

There are lots of reasons why people use security surveillance cameras...

-Insurance

Do you mean to provide himself with peice of mind insurance that his property is filmed, or in terms of his Builder's Risk provisions on his Homeowners policy, or what? If the former, meaningless, since he allows all entrance. If the latter, he would likely not be covered for liability claims because he did not post the property or make any UCR attempts to secure it.

- Record keeping

Keeping records of what? Oh yeah, the trespassers he caught on video.

- Catching random intruders

Um, yeah. That's a trap. That's what I said.

- Catching a specific intruder

*rubbing temples* Yeah, that's a trap. That's what I said.

- Deterrent for potential intruders

Yeah, a wide open unposted and unsecured site is some bang-up effort to deter. I suppose the trespassers would be deterred by seeing the hidden game cameras at night, too? They're wearing night vision goggles, I suppose? Hey, how did that work for English as a deterrent?

- Monitoring workers

Oh yeah. Really critical to monitor the midnight shift on a residential construction site. It's great relations with your subcontractors to tell them "Hey, work around all these cameras I installed to keep an eye on you dirtbags"

Your claim that "cameras on a wide open accessible site mean one thing: a trap" is nothing but pure, evidence-free speculation on your part.

No, it's comparing efforts English made to secure the site (NONE) versus efforts made to catch evidence of the trespassing he fully allowed to happen.

NOTE: My business insurance company gives me lower premiums for having surveillance cameras at my place of business.... it amounts to a saving of $35 per month. Those cameras paid for themselves in less than a year

Ya think your insurance would cover a claim if you literally left your doors wide open and unattended 24/7? I think they'd call you an idiot and deny the claim because you did not show due diligence in closing up the ******* front door and not posting the premises.

Again, my argument is that he wanted to catch a trespasser, not stop trespassing. And based on the months of security video released, a couple little boys peeked in once, a white couple peeked in once, and Arbery appears there multiple times.

Think it through: English says he called police on a black man with tattoos (believed to be Arbery) who he caught on camera. He didn't say he called about the white couple or the white boys though, did he?

I think it can be assumed that English was specifically trying to catch Arbery. And I think it's at least plausible that he may have colluded with the McMicheals more than he has copped to.
 
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Or English might have wanted to keep an eye on his contractors.

Oh yeah. It was a motion activated game camera system that sent a ping to his phone when it caught movement, then recorded. Must be fun 8-12 hours a day pinging and managing the constant recording on multiple cameras. That's some serious storage.

Maybe he just live streams and watches them all day? Or records the multiple camera footage and watches all night? All reasonable stuff for a construction site. Also a good idea for recording those 3AM workers.

Actually, that might account for why the work was moving so slow. Tough to find guys to work under prison-like surveillance. Most would be highly insulted and tell English to **** off.
 
Why does it matter?

The murderers hadn't seen any video or been asked by the owner of the property to chase down random black guys in the street and execute them.
 
Why does it matter?

The murderers hadn't seen any video or been asked by the owner of the property to chase down random black guys in the street and execute them.

So says English. But if he was an active participant in conspiring to catch Arbery, you think he should just skip away without consequence?

Eta: in case still not crystal clear: if English was actively and specifically tying to catch Arbery, the cameras would have pinged his phone when Arbery entered just prior to his murder. Now if English immediately relayed that notification to Roddy/Greg/Travis, that would be conspiracy, and he's be at least as culpable as Roddy and Greg.
 
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So says English. But if he was an active participant in conspiring to catch Arbery, you think he should just skip away without consequence?

Eta: in case still not crystal clear: if English was actively and specifically tying to catch Arbery, the cameras would have pinged his phone when Arbery entered just prior to his murder. Now if English immediately relayed that notification to Roddy/Greg/Travis, that would be conspiracy, and he's be at least as culpable as Roddy and Greg.

There is no evidence of that at all. Police downloaded Roddy's phone data after the incident. Their reviewed the McMichaels' phones and computers. They found no evidence that Roddy and the McMichaels coordinated any effort. GBI also got a warrant and downloaded everything on English's phone.

English says he didn't know the McMichaels and the McMichaels say they didn't know English. The only contact was at one point Travis talked with him for a couple minutes about the work he was doing on the house. I think that was before Arbery ever showed up.

There were reports that someone had started something like a Facebook neighborhood watch page to discuss the thefts and the mystery guy in English's house, but no indication that English took any part in that.

English called 911 twice when Arbery was on the property. He was at his home about 2 hours away. He said he wanted the police to get the guy off his property. He offered to send a picture of the guy from the video.

On the day of the murder English was also at his home. His attorney says he didn't answer the phone when he got the alert because he was working with his bees and had honey of his hands. He saw the video about 20 minutes later and called a neighbor (not the McMichaels and not the person who lived across the street) and asked him to check it out and see if something was going on where he needed to call the police. The neighbor informed him that the guy had been killed.

There were a couple neighbors that told English they would look after the property for him, but he didn't ask for that. His attorney shared a text exchange allegedly showing that a police officer sent McMichael's phone number to English and told him that McMichael would offer assistance if anyone else came onto the construction site. There is no indication that English did that or contacted McMichael in any way.
 
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There is no evidence of that at all. Police downloaded Roddy's phone data after the incident. Their reviewed the McMichaels' phones and computers. They found no evidence that Roddy and the McMichaels coordinated any effort. GBI also got a warrant and downloaded everything on English's phone.

English says he didn't know the McMichaels and the McMichaels say they didn't know English. The only contact was at one point Travis talked with him for a couple minutes about the work he was doing on the house. I think that was before Arbery ever showed up.

There were reports that someone had started something like a Facebook neighborhood watch page to discuss the thefts and the mystery guy in English's house, but no indication that English took any part in that.

English called 911 twice when Arbery was on the property. He was at his home about 2 hours away. He said he wanted the police to get the guy off his property. He offered to send a picture of the guy from the video.

On the day of the murder English was also at his home. His attorney says he didn't answer the phone when he got the alert because he was working with his bees and had honey of his hands. He saw the video about 20 minutes later and called a neighbor (not the McMichaels and not the person who lived across the street) and asked him to check it out and see if something was going on where he needed to call the police. The neighbor informed him that the guy had been killed.

There were a couple neighbors that told English they would look after the property for him, but he didn't ask for that. His attorney shared a text exchange allegedly showing that a police officer sent McMichael's phone number to English and told him that McMichael would offer assistance if anyone else came onto the construction site. There is no indication that English did that or contacted McMichael in any way.

Cool. Some new information in there. Where did you find it?

So English called police twice on Arbery. Did he call police on the white folk or can we assume he was fine with them trespassing? Maybe there was some...specific...criteria that a trespasser had to meet to warrant calling cops? If so, I'd highly question any of his statements as being self-serving. Perhaps I'm alone in that? Ok.

Eta: your edits: are you talking about Perez?
 
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Think it through: English says he called police on a black man with tattoos (believed to be Arbery) who he caught on camera. He didn't say he called about the white couple or the white boys though, did he?

On one of the 911 calls he said he had a similar problem with a couple of different people the night before and had called the police. There doesn't appear to be a 911 call for that, so he may have called the police department directly. They may well have told him to call 911 in the future.
 
Cool. Some new information in there. Where did you find it?

All of that is from reports and interviews in May 2020.

So English called police twice on Arbery. Did he call police on the white folk or can we assume he was fine with them trespassing? Maybe there was some...specific...criteria that a trespasser had to meet to warrant calling cops? If so, I'd highly question any of his statements as being self-serving. Perhaps I'm alone in that? Ok.

See my post above.

Eta: your edits: are you talking about Perez?

Perez said that he told English he would look after the property. On Feb 11 Travis and Perez saw Arbery and tried to talk to him. Travis confronted Arbery, but he ran away. It has been reported that English sent Perez a copy of the video from the Feb 11, Incident.

English hasn't said who he called on the day of the murder, but it might well have been Perez.
 
Oh yeah. It was a motion activated game camera system that sent a ping to his phone when it caught movement, then recorded. Must be fun 8-12 hours a day pinging and managing the constant recording on multiple cameras. That's some serious storage.

Maybe he just live streams and watches them all day? Or records the multiple camera footage and watches all night? All reasonable stuff for a construction site. Also a good idea for recording those 3AM workers.

Actually, that might account for why the work was moving so slow. Tough to find guys to work under prison-like surveillance. Most would be highly insulted and tell English to **** off.
Or maybe he checks in on them? To verify arrival/departure times, for example. Or archives the video, the storage of which is utterly trivial today.

Why does it matter?

The murderers hadn't seen any video or been asked by the owner of the property to chase down random black guys in the street and execute them.
Indeed.
 
Or maybe he checks in on them? To verify arrival/departure times, for example. Or archives the video, the storage of which is utterly trivial today.

Subs aren't hourly employees. They come and go as they please, as long as they hit contractual completion dates. There is no reason to spy on them during the work day except to be a dick.

Do you have a scintilla of evidence for your implied conspiracy?
:rolleyes:

I am questioning why English was so concerned about trespassers, apparently only of one specific skin color, when he can't be bothered to discourage trespassing in the usual ways. It's fair game, and I'd like to see anyone with any involvement scrutinized.

It was his property. A Facebook page was made to "citizen police" alleged theft there. He reports to the police apparently only black people. That's enough to narrow eyes at least a bit.

Also curious about Perez, but haven't found much on him yet.
 
Or maybe he checks in on them? To verify arrival/departure times, for example. Or archives the video, the storage of which is utterly trivial today.

English said he put up the cameras "to keep an eye on the boat and any kind of traffic from children in the neighborhood."

He did not archive the videos. He deleted them because he didn't think they were important. At the time of the murder the only videos he had were Feb 11 and Feb 23 (the day of the murder). His lawyer says they were trying to get copies of the previous videos from the video service provider.
 
English said he put up the cameras "to keep an eye on the boat and any kind of traffic from children in the neighborhood."

He did not archive the videos. He deleted them because he didn't think they were important. At the time of the murder the only videos he had were Feb 11 and Feb 23 (the day of the murder). His lawyer says they were trying to get copies of the previous videos from the video service provider.

"Keep an eye on the boat and kids". Plywood over the door would take care of kids, and probably anyone else. But he didn't do that. The place was wide open, but with multiple cameras inside and out. That's what makes me a little suspicious.

Eta: you might want to double check your sources (from memory?). Surveillance footage on the property has been shown from December 17, according to timestamped video provided in post #3210.
 
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The lack of comprehension is strong in this one...

No it isn't.

Yet again, you forgot to read. We are not talking about the benefits of camera systems. We are comparing steps specifically taken by English to secure the property from trespassers, versus steps taken solely to catch evidence against trespassers, ie: a trap. As some knucklehead noted earlier, he didn't even put up a Posted: No Trespassing sign from a dollar store. No fence, not even plywood over the door. Left the place absolutely wide open, and intentionally.

You made a claim couched as a statement of fact, and failed to back it up with facts.... yet again!

You made this statement.... "cameras on a wide open accessible site mean one thing: a trap" Whatever BS and other crap you waffled on about, you claimed that this is the ONLY reason to install security cameras.

Do you mean to provide himself with peice of mind...

Its "peace" of mind. Not only did you try to use the wrong word, you didn't even spell the wrong word correctly :p

....insurance that his property is filmed, or in terms of his Builder's Risk provisions on his Homeowners policy, or what? If the former, meaningless, since he allows all entrance. If the latter, he would likely not be covered for liability claims because he did not post the property or make any UCR attempts to secure it.

You don't know much about insurance do you? Ill get to that later in the post

Keeping records of what?

The coming and goings of contractors and/or suppliers delivering goods.
People damaging the property

Um, yeah. That's a trap. That's what I said
*rubbing temples* Yeah, that's a trap. That's what I said. ]

*bashing head against wall*

Yeah, ONE of the reasons, not the only reason as you claimed

Yeah, a wide open unposted and unsecured site is some bang-up effort to deter. I suppose the trespassers would be deterred by seeing the hidden game cameras at night, too? They're wearing night vision goggles, I suppose? Hey, how did that work for English as a deterrent?

Yeah, just because a security camera doesn't deter everyone, does not mean it didn't deter some people, and it doesn't mean that wasn't a reason for installing them. Try, for once in your life to see beyond your own, narrow, blinkered, preconceived theories

Oh yeah. Really critical to monitor the midnight shift on a residential construction site. It's great relations with your subcontractors to tell them "Hey, work around all these cameras I installed to keep an eye on you dirtbags"

Oh yeah... and over here in the real world, owners of construction site actually DO install cameras literally for that very reason.


Ya think your insurance would cover a claim if you literally left your doors wide open and unattended 24/7? I think they'd call you an idiot and deny the claim because you did not show due diligence in closing up the ******* front door and not posting the premises.

I can, and have, successfully claimed against insurance when a snatch & grab thief stole a $2500 camera kit out of a window display when the front door of the shop was open (as it always is during the shop open hours) while my staff members were attending to another customer in the print lab (i.e. no-one was in the front half of the shop). Not only did the insurance company pay out, I handed the surveillance footage to the police, and they caught the thief a few days later.

Again, my argument is that he wanted to catch a trespasser, not stop trespassing. And based on the months of security video released, a couple little boys peeked in once, a white couple peeked in once, and Arbery appears there multiple times.

So you have seen and reviewed ALL of the surveillance video?

If so, links please!
 
Posted here for Thermal to ponder

"11 Reasons Construction Sites are Using Business Surveillance Systems"

https://mobilevideoguard.com/11-reasons-construction-sites-are-using-business-surveillance-systems/

1. Monitor construction workers2. Monitor architects, engineers, and design teams
3. Understand resource consumption
4. Simplify theft prevention
5. Prevent criminals and intruders
6. Preventing possible liabilities
7. Surveillance of construction progress
8. Surveillance for business safety protocol
9. Deter vandalism
10. Prevent sabotage and destruction to property
11. Resolve internal issues with employees
 
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