Jogging in Georgia while black.

[whoanellie]

Typically, almost all criminal charges (by some counts as much as 95%) are resolved without going to trial, and at most of the ones that do the defendant faces a cut-and-dried case represented by an overworked public defender or court-appointed lawyer who doesn't want to be there. But in a high-profile case, with enough money the defense can hire its own investigators, its own forensic experts, its own video analysts, its own psychiatrists and anybody else who might raise doubts about the prosecution's case. All they need is one juror who thinks "that guy didn't murder anybody, he was just scared," and that's enough to hang the jury.

Was the Amber Guyger trial a circus?
Was the Michael Drejka trial a circus?
Was the Michael Dunn trial a circus?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

NYTimes puts together timeline of final minutes of Arbery's life based on the surveillance cameras, 911 calls, and cell-phone footage. This is the first reporting I've seen that coordinates all these pieces together. I found the street map footage very helpful for understanding how the killers and their victim ended up at the final location.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007142853/ahmaud-arbery-video-911-georgia.html?smid=pl-share

 

[JoeMorgue]

These killers were in the clear. The DA had made the decision not to prosecute and that was the end of it. Then the video came out.

And I think people are starting to key in more and more on how a "Well we have to just trust the system to make the decision" breaks if there's a dishonest and/or imperfect agent can, without meaningful oversight, pick and choose which events even go into the system to be judged.

The DA's letter gives the McMichaels accounting of the story an obscene amount of credulity. It basically accepts their framing of the self-defense narrative on face value despite ample evidence that casts their actions in an exceedingly poor light. The DA also characterizes Arbery as a fleeing burglar without providing any evidence to substantiate this key fact.

It was a letter never meant to be examined carefully, because it immediately collapses under scrutiny. It's purpose was to clear the two killers and make the case go away, facts of the case be damned. A horrible abuse of prosecutorial discretion.

For me the most damning thing is that the McMichaels felt no need to lie about anything. As I've said from moment 1 in their version of events it was clear cut legal murder. They didn't meet the requirements for a Citizens Arrest, Stand your Ground, or Self Defense. They've basically admitted to murder and not only got off, never even got put on the scales to see if they would get off or not.

 

[quadraginta]

NYTimes puts together timeline of final minutes of Arbery's life based on the surveillance cameras, 911 calls, and cell-phone footage. This is the first reporting I've seen that coordinates all these pieces together. I found the street map footage very helpful for understanding how the killers and their victim ended up at the final location.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000007142853/ahmaud-arbery-video-911-georgia.html?smid=pl-share

My, my.

That rendition makes it kinda tough to argue that Arbery hadn't made plenty of effort to get away from them before he finally gave that up as an option.

He was probably too tired to try any more running away.

It would be tough to illustrate any more clearly that they were hunting him down.

I wonder if they saw this as some sort of new, motorized, 'good ol' boy' version of a fox hunt. It certainly has that look to it.

 

[lionking]

My, my.

That rendition makes it kinda tough to argue that Arbery hadn't made plenty of effort to get away from them before he finally gave that up as an option.

He was probably too tired to try any more running away.

It would be tough to illustrate any more clearly that they were hunting him down.

I wonder if they saw this as some sort of new, motorized, 'good ol' boy' version of a fox hunt. It certainly has that look to it.

Indeed. It also shows that the first shot was fired before Arbery tries to grab Travis’ gun. Open and shut.

I also can’t see how Roddy walks free. He was an active part of the hunt.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I can't see how anyone involved in this incident seeing any conviction is a foregone conclusion seeing as how the jurisdiction they are in never had any intention of even arresting or charging them.

Again... "I don't see how they can get away with this!" is a weird thing to say when they already did.

 

[lionking]

I can't see how anyone involved in this incident seeing any conviction is a foregone conclusion seeing as how the jurisdiction they are in never had any intention of even arresting or charging them.

Again... "I don't see how they can get away with this!" is a weird thing to say when they already did.

The exposure of what happened changes things significantly.

But, yeah, you might be right and a redneck jury exonerates the killers. I hope not.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The exposure of what happened changes things significantly.

That's a double edged sword though.

One you got the pushback we've already seen in this thread that the outrage leading to the arrest somehow taints the arrests or makes them unfair because they were done under duress. Even beyond finding enough racist rednecks to hang a jury in Georgia, you can certainly find enough "I'm going to find these two (or three) people not guilty just to spite the idea that I we were forced to have the trail" types.

Second some kind of unspoken "Okay you want them guilty, we didn't even want to arrest them, so we've compromised and at least arrested them but won't find them guilty (or find them guilty of a meaningless minor lesser charger or find them guilty but give them a meaninglessly small punishment or whatever)" is exactly the kind of "I can keep going further into crazy and demand you meet me in the middle" version of Compromise that's become oddly popular.

 

[carlitos]

My, my.

That rendition makes it kinda tough to argue that Arbery hadn't made plenty of effort to get away from them before he finally gave that up as an option.

He was probably too tired to try any more running away.

It would be tough to illustrate any more clearly that they were hunting him down.

I wonder if they saw this as some sort of new, motorized, 'good ol' boy' version of a fox hunt. It certainly has that look to it.

It’s not even new. If you go back 100 years there are countless murders where white guys in vehicles ran down black men who were on foot running until trapped or tired. Go back 400 years and substitute horseback and you’ll have even more examples.

Our Australian readers will find examples as well, just substitute Aboriginal for the race in question.

 

[Darat]

My, my.

That rendition makes it kinda tough to argue that Arbery hadn't made plenty of effort to get away from them before he finally gave that up as an option.

He was probably too tired to try any more running away.

It would be tough to illustrate any more clearly that they were hunting him down.

I wonder if they saw this as some sort of new, motorized, 'good ol' boy' version of a fox hunt. It certainly has that look to it.

That makes it very hard to understand why Bryan hasn't also been arrested for murder, he was part of the, well the only word is hunt.

 

[pgwenthold]

It’s not even new. If you go back 100 years there are countless murders where white guys in vehicles ran down black men who were on foot running until trapped or tired. Go back 400 years and substitute horseback and you’ll have even more examples..

I've said this from the beginning. The only difference between this and a 1950s lynching is that they didn't accuse him of raping a white woman. Nah, here it was just trespassing....

 

[Bob001]

Yup, it did, but not in the way you think. The crazy thing is that this is one of the few cases in the US where the entire case is available on Youtube and yet people still seem to be ignorant about it and rather than looking at the evidence presented in court, they rely on all the speculation and misinformation that was in the newspapers and the posts of internet sleuths.

There is no doubt that Zimmerman was stalking Martin. He said so himself on his 911 call. We only have his account of what happened after that. Whether he confronted Martin and Martin defended himself, or whether Martin confronted a suspicious stranger who was following him in the dark, the fact is that Zimmerman created the circumstances that caused Martin's death. Zimmerman didn't have to be where he was, and he shouldn't have been. He got away with murder.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Zimmerman was another case, like this one and Guyver, where the person fully admitted what they did and we had to pretend like there was an actual moral or legal conundrum by invoking a legal principle that we all agreed didn't apply to the case because the person who committed the murder said "But I want it to apply here."

The McMichaels were not performing a citizen's arrest, Zimmerman wasn't standing his ground, and Guyver wasn't protecting her castle yet 90% of the jibber-jabber about those cases were about those unrelated topics.

 

[Bob001]

Was the Amber Guyger trial a circus?
Was the Michael Drejka trial a circus?
Was the Michael Dunn trial a circus?

In none of those cases did the victim struggle with his killer. In this case you have an ex-cop claiming that he was pursuing a criminal suspect, and a fight over control of a shotgun. I think a Southern small-town jury will be looking for an excuse to let them off, and I think the defense will try hard to give it to them.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I've said this from the beginning. The only difference between this and a 1950s lynching is that they didn't accuse him of raping a white woman. Nah, here it was just trespassing....

Like seriously just start selling the postcards and be done with it. If you're going to be 1950s racist, at least respect the traditions.

They can't sell pieces of the rope in this case, but I bet the shotgun shells would fetch a pretty price on Ebay. I mean it's not like there isn't precedent *Cough* Zimmerman selling the gun he shot Martin with for a quarter mil *Cough*

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

It’s not even new. If you go back 100 years there are countless murders where white guys in vehicles ran down black men who were on foot running until trapped or tired. Go back 400 years and substitute horseback and you’ll have even more examples.

Were there any examples where black guys ran down white men?

 

[Skeptic Tank]

NYTimes puts together timeline of final minutes of Arbery's life based on the surveillance cameras, 911 calls, and cell-phone footage.

Thanks for linking that. Just watched it, and it honestly is really damning. It makes Arbery look even more like a total criminal, leaving no remaining room for any interpretation of him as innocent.

Indeed. It also shows that the first shot was fired before Arbery tries to grab Travis’ gun. Open and shut.

Looks to me like the first shot was fired in response to Arbery aggressively charging at him. Entirely appropriate.

The exposure of what happened changes things significantly.

The fact that widespread exposure to this led to charges doesn't reflect on this in the way you think it does. It is actually a really bad look for the legitimacy of this.

But, yeah, you might be right and a redneck jury exonerates the killers. I hope not.

"Redneck jury" indeed. Are you prepared to admit that a black jury would just find a verdict based on racial feeling and emotion?

You might want to take a step back and consider how you ended up in a place where you're sitting there feeling morally justified as you lust for three men who were simply trying to protect their neighborhood, one of whom was viciously attacked, and defended himself - to end up in prison over it.

Do you really wan to be the kind of person who automatically sympathizes with the criminal? Who taught you to hate your own group and the men who make your civilization safe and functional? Is this a healthy mindset to have?

 

[Giordano]

Were there any examples where black guys ran down white men?

You know, I almost forgot myself and began to respond to this comment. But then I thought better of it.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

You know, I almost forgot myself and began to respond to this comment. But then I thought better of it.

Yet you replied.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Thanks for linking that. Just watched it, and it honestly is really damning. It makes Arbery look even more like a total criminal, leaving no remaining room for any interpretation of him as innocent.

You really think there's no remaining room for any interpretation of Arbery as innocent? I find that incredible.

I watched the video last night. I expected a bit of bias from NYT and noticed a couple of things. Of course, being NYT it was really well put together. The maps really cleared up the layout of the area for me.