Cont: Jogging in Georgia while black - The Trial

[TurkeysGhost]

An interesting commentary from Lara Bazelon on Barri Weisse's substack, the argument is that all the people gimlet focussing on the Rittenhouse trial should have been looking at this one.





https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/progressives-have-been-obsessing

As far as I can tell, nobody is really defending Arbery's killers (besides the racist cops and DA that tried to sweep it under the rug initially).

I'm sure people like Weiss would rather the nation focus on relatively uncontroversial cases of racists committing murder and getting justly punished, but the fact that other racist killers routinely walk free while conservatives defend them is very much a more pertinent issue.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Come on man. You can see the difference between saying someone was just jogging, versus someone bolting away from a house that had trespassing issues. It doesn't make the McMicheals any less guilty. It makes us more reasonable to call it what it is.

It's exactly what it says on the tin, white people murdered a black guy for jogging through their neighborhood.

Sure, they think they had good reasons, but that's what racism does to their brains.

The prosecution has absolutely laid this bare. The McMichael's perception of crime occurring in their neighborhood was wildly distorted from reality, probably because they were poisoning their brains on Facebook anecdotes. In all this pearl clutching and fantastic stories of a serial thief they identified a villain, some black guy they saw once being vaguely suspicious. Given the opportunity to take a bold stand against a wave of crime that didn't really exist, they took the law into their own hands and murdered him when Arbery refused to play along with their imagined authority.

Deranged white people wildly exaggerating the dangers of crime, especially black crime, is a cornerstone of American racism.

For Arbery, he was murdered for jogging through the wrong neighborhood. For the killers, they see vast nuance that only exists because of the fantasies invented in their addled, racist brains. That's unfortunate for them, but us outside observers don't really have to lend their delusions credibility.

 

[varwoche]

... Tough sell considering it's 11 women, and 4 men. One male is a PoC. It's slightly condescending when you're chastising me, yet don't even know the absolute basics of the trial. If by "you're too in love with the show of the trial", you mean I've watched it all, seen the evidence, heard the cross, and paid attention, then yes. Have you? Have you watched any of it? Like any of it at all?

No he wasn't talking to the ******* Jury. Jesus Christ Joe. The comments were made outside of the jury presence. They weren't allowed in the room when they were going through motions. I mean, ******* seriously. Maybe the reason you don't think they'll get prosecuted is you know exactly **** all about what's happened, happening or will happen? You think, maybe, you're just not educated about it and you should maybe take some time to do some research? These aren't petty talking points you're referring to. These are cornerstones of the trial.

You adhere to the quaint notion that juries are necessarily driven by facts.

It takes but one juror to create a hung jury. Such an outcome would be abhorrent yet not surprising.

 

[I Am The Scum]

I don't know how the defense did not get admonished in front of the jury for the "Dirty toenails" comment. That whole last part of her summation was basically, the N-word had it coming defense.

Can someone explain what the toenails thing was about? I saw a clip of it on twitter and I was rather confused. Is this a dog whistle that I haven't heard before?

 

[JoeMorgue]

Can someone explain what the toenails thing was about? I saw a clip of it on twitter and I was rather confused. Is this a dog whistle that I haven't heard before?

It's not necessarily a "dog whistle" (although I have heard some say it relates to "runaway slave" terminology but I cannot confirm that) but isn't just enough that it's basically just open character assassination that has sweet FA to do with the trial?

 

[plague311]

You adhere to the quaint notion that juries are necessarily driven by facts.

It takes but one juror to create a hung jury. Such an outcome would be abhorrent yet not surprising.

Oh no, I'm perfectly aware, but after watching the trial I really, seriously don't see anyone on the jury as giving a not guilty verdict. Someone says this exact phrase in every trial thread, and it's entirely true. There's no doubt about it.

I just don't personally feel it will be a problem here at all. I don't think the defense was particularly convincing and I feel the evidence is overwhelming.

 

[plague311]

The looks on the faces of Travis, Greg, and Roddie is very telling.

On that note, the infamous juror number 12 will stay. The alternates are 14, 13, and 6.

Jury has deliberated, it's just a waiting game now.

 

[pgwenthold]

Oh no, I'm perfectly aware, but after watching the trial I really, seriously don't see anyone on the jury as giving a not guilty verdict. Someone says this exact phrase in every trial thread, and it's entirely true. There's no doubt about it.

I just don't personally feel it will be a problem here at all. I don't think the defense was particularly convincing and I feel the evidence is overwhelming.

Remember all the hand-wringing over the one where the woman cop shot the guy eating cereal?

The same people were convinced she was going to walk. It doesn't mean much.

 

[plague311]

Remember all the hand-wringing over the one where the woman cop shot the guy eating cereal?

The same people were convinced she was going to walk. It doesn't mean much.

You ain't wrong.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Right because Guyver was totally the rule to how those cases usually occurred and not a rare, almost one off-exception.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Right because Guyver was totally the rule to how those cases usually occurred and not a rare, almost one off-exception.

Expect the same kind of thing here. The most extreme examples of blatantly criminal killings of black people by white cops/vigilantes still occasionally results in consequences, and those that wish to deny a general problem will point to this instances of justice to claim the problem doesn't exist.

Guyger probably would have walked had she intentionally kicked in that door and murdered Botham (with an adequate pretext), but admitting it was the result of being absent-minded was a bridge too far. Not sure that proves much, I guess it's nice that there is some threshold of nonsense that the public won't accept in these cases, but it's nowhere close to adequate.

Likewise with this case. Three busybody racists lynching a man in broad daylight will almost certainly result in a conviction. There's a lot of room between that and any semblance of a just society.

 

[plague311]

Expect the same kind of thing here. The most extreme examples of blatantly criminal killings of black people by white cops/vigilantes still occasionally results in consequences, and those that wish to deny a general problem will point to this instances of justice to claim the problem doesn't exist.

LoL what a crock of ****. No one is claiming a problem doesn't exist. It just gets old when people scream in every possible thread that there will be no guilty verdict and everyone from that state is a racist before the jury even ******* deliberates. By people I mean you and Joe and by "in every possible thread" I mean in every possible thread you two participate in where circumstances like this happen. We have seen the trend slightly starting to change though. It's encouraging.

Guyger probably would have walked had she intentionally kicked in that door and murdered Botham (with an adequate pretext), but admitting it was the result of being absent-minded was a bridge too far.

Does this seriously make sense when you type it? Did you read through that and seriously think, "Yeah, the problem is she didn't kick the door down. That would have really convinced the jury!" It's tough to take such absolute nonsense seriously. No one does, but I just wanted it stated.

Not sure that proves much, I guess it's nice that there is some threshold of nonsense that the public won't accept in these cases, but it's nowhere close to adequate.

No one has said the current state of affairs is adequate. Why do you guys make up these absolute bull **** strawmen like people can't go back and read the thread? What do you get from it? How are you coming out ahead? I'm seriously wondering.

Likewise with this case. Three busybody racists lynching a man in broad daylight will almost certainly result in a conviction. There's a lot of room between that and any semblance of a just society.

Now just find ******* anyone in this thread that has implied different. I seriously beg you to do so.

Let me save you the time, no one.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

LoL what a crock of ****. No one is claiming a problem doesn't exist. It just gets old when people scream in every possible thread that there will be no guilty verdict and everyone from that state is a racist before the jury even ******* deliberates. By people I mean you and Joe and by "in every possible thread" I mean in every possible thread you two participate in where circumstances like this happen. We have seen the trend slightly starting to change though. It's encouraging.



Does this seriously make sense when you type it? Did you read through that and seriously think, "Yeah, the problem is she didn't kick the door down. That would have really convinced the jury!" It's tough to take such absolute nonsense seriously. No one does, but I just wanted it stated.



No one has said the current state of affairs is adequate. Why do you guys make up these absolute bull **** strawmen like people can't go back and read the thread? What do you get from it? How are you coming out ahead? I'm seriously wondering.



Now just find ******* anyone in this thread that has implied different. I seriously beg you to do so.

Let me save you the time, no one.

Perhaps I missed something, but nothing I said here was meant to be a personal attack on your or even other forum members here. I was commenting more broadly. Not sure why you interpreted this as a personal attack.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Jesus Christ dude calm down. You're a little over-protective of your self appointed role as the "Official Legal Analyst" for this board.

For every Officer McTired N' Horny there's a dozen, hundred maybe, cops that give black men 375 warning shots in the back in broad day light on camera while holding up a sign that says "LOL I'm totally murdering this black guy, dare you do something about it" and IT NEVER EVEN GOES TO A TRIAL.

I don't get why you react so pissily and oddly personally about the idea that these guys could walk just because you graded the Prosecution so highly.

Injustice in the legal system doesn't go away just because you spend a thread giving the Prosecution a gold star.

 

[plague311]

Perhaps I missed something, but nothing I said here was meant to be a personal attack on your or even other forum members here. I was commenting more broadly. Not sure why you interpreted this as a personal attack.

Never took it as a personal attack at all. That's why I said "no one is claiming", I was including others as well. I called you two out because I personally see you two doing it in literally every single thread like this from the Guyger, to the Floyd, to this one, etc. Every single one.

I didn't take it personally at all. I even said I was literally curious why you guys do this? Does it need to be rehashed in every thread?

Jesus Christ dude calm down.

God I get sick of saying this. I'm not riled up. If that's the way you're taking it then, ok. Seriously though. I've been here for over a decade, I feel like this should be well-known by now.

You're a little over-protective of your self appointed role as the "Official Legal Analyst" for this board.

LoL wut? What does this have to do at all with my "Official Legal Analyst" for this board? I'm not a legal ****. I'm not an attorney, I'm not anything. I'm a networking guy.

*snip all of the **** you guys have said in every other thread about the legal system*

Thank you, Joe. Yet again you've reminded everyone here that there is racial injustice in the legal system. It is, again, helpful. No one here was aware that there are times that the racism of the criminal justice system rears its ugly head.

However, and just an idea here, how about we wait to see if that racism has literally **** all to do with this case now? We know about the previous DA, we know about the attempt to sweep it under the rug, but I'd say it's pretty clear that the state of Georgia is going out of it's way to correct that. Which is a good thing, but yes. There is racism in the US court system, duly noted.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Never took it as a personal attack at all. That's why I said "no one is claiming", I was including others as well. I called you two out because I personally see you two doing it in literally every single thread like this from the Guyger, to the Floyd, to this one, etc. Every single one.

Probably because systematic racism is, and has been, the rotten foundation that this country has been built on and continually causes injustice to occur on a mass scale, and the right wing political project makes denying this plain fact and the consequences that arise a central point of their movement. Seems like something worth mentioning from time to time.

If you aren't interested in the broader implications of this murder, why do you care at all? Some dudes shot a guy and are going to prison. If you take the obvious racism element out of play, there's really not much of anything here to care about.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Never took it as a personal attack at all. That's why I said "no one is claiming", I was including others as well. I called you two out because I personally see you two doing it in literally every single thread like this from the Guyger, to the Floyd, to this one, etc. Every single one.

I didn't take it personally at all. I even said I was literally curious why you guys do this? Does it need to be rehashed in every thread?

God I get sick of saying this. I'm not riled up. If that's the way you're taking it then, ok. Seriously though. I've been here for over a decade, I feel like this should be well-known by now.

LoL wut? What does this have to do at all with my "Official Legal Analyst" for this board? I'm not a legal ****. I'm not an attorney, I'm not anything. I'm a networking guy.

Thank you, Joe. Yet again you've reminded everyone here that there is racial injustice in the legal system. It is, again, helpful. No one here was aware that there are times that the racism of the criminal justice system rears its ugly head.

However, and just an idea here, how about we wait to see if that racism has literally **** all to do with this case now? We know about the previous DA, we know about the attempt to sweep it under the rug, but I'd say it's pretty clear that the state of Georgia is going out of it's way to correct that. Which is a good thing, but yes. There is racism in the US court system, duly noted.

Then I must say your reaction to anyone mentioning anything other than how well the prosecution is doing is rather bizarre.

I have zero idea what set you off, why you're now at "I got set off? Show me were I got set off! I swear to God you saying I got set off has really set me off!" and why you think this thread is just for you to give the Prosecution and Defense performance reviews and that's all that must be talked about.

 

[plague311]

Probably because systematic racism is, and has been, the rotten foundation that this country has been built on and continually causes injustice to occur on a mass scale, and the right wing political project makes denying this plain fact and the consequences that arise a central point of their movement. Seems like something worth mentioning from time to time.every time.

FTFY. It's every thread. It's never changed. Also, I don't disagree with you. In fact, even our forum racists aren't disagreeing with you. There is a point when things get redundant.

If you aren't interested in the broader implications of this murder, why do you care at all?

Where did you pull that out of? I've watched every moment I possibly could of this trial. I've talked about how important it is, and how badly I'd like to see justice for Arbery. You guys aren't talking about broader implications though, are you? At least, you haven't that I've seen. You've pointed out racism exists in the criminal justice system as if it's not a known issue.

Some dudes shot a guy and are going to prison. If you take the obvious racism element out of play, there's really not much of anything here to care about.

I'm not asking you to "take the racism element out of play"; however, just popping in to say that there's racism in Georgia isn't really a huge debate topic, is it? Neither have mentioned that the wrong of initially not charging is being righted. That they're not going to let this racism get away. That's a positive change, but no. It's always the same rinse, repeat statement. "Racism exists in the courts. They're going to walk. They're going to get off." But yet, they aren't. They aren't going to get off.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I'm not asking you to "take the racism element out of play"; however, just popping in to say that there's racism in Georgia isn't really a huge debate topic, is it? Neither have mentioned that the wrong of initially not charging is being righted. That they're not going to let this racism get away. That's a positive change, but no. It's always the same rinse, repeat statement. "Racism exists in the courts. They're going to walk. They're going to get off." But yet, they aren't. They aren't going to get off.

You'd have to take that up with someone who thinks they're going to get acquitted. Maybe a rotten juror could cause a mistrial and just doing the whole trial again with a fresh jury, but an outright acquittal strikes me as extremely unlikely.

Of course, these guys did get away with it once already. The local DA successfully swept it under the rug, and if weren't for the unforced error of the killers releasing their snuff film to the public, they'd be free men who bravely defended themselves against an aggressive black man. Very informative how the system operates when there isn't intense public scrutiny.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

If any of you are curious to hear a lawyer whose expertise is self defense law weigh in on the closing arguments, here you go.

He feels acquittals are a definite possibility. I hope he's right, but fear he's wrong.

I fear that this case being charged at all, and the verdicts likely from it, have been detached from what's lawful and what's right for a long time now.