Joe Walsh is scum

[crimresearch]

Yep it is only people who act like he says she act that he does not consider heroes. He never actually says she isn't. It is just that she has a trait that means she is not a hero.

He established a category called 'true heroes' He claimed she was not in that category and used the factor of her talking about her sevice as the reason for excluding her from the category of true heros.

What category is left? 'Partially true hero'? I doubt it.

I wonder what he thinks of Ollie North, who is not at all shy about bringing up his time in service...

 

[sarge]

I think you and I can both remember a time when veterans pretty much kept it quiet.

"Waving the Bloody Shirt" (think Bo Gritz) doesn't make somebody any points with me, but I'll admit to my prejudice against anyone who didn't serve mouthing off about someone who did, and even more so if the veteran in question has paid the price to the extent that Duckworth has.

I suppose I agree with every word of that. Certainly, I believe that her sacrifice is worth honoring, regardless of the absence or presence of any heroic actions displayed concurrent with her sacrifice.

 

[BStrong]

Brother, you should have been here in the LongtabberPE days.

That guy was in every conflict from the Korean War up until last Thursday.

Search some of his old posts in the Bigfoot threads. You'll laugh.

Madrone!

Just did a quick post search - from chicken farmer to an SFOD E8 with a PhD? that's some life.

I see he made it to Bulshido - that's the big time for ********ters - the guy must be related to Frank Dux.

 

[BenBurch]

I think you and I can both remember a time when veterans pretty much kept it quiet.

"Waving the Bloody Shirt" (think Bo Gritz) doesn't make somebody any points with me, but I'll admit to my prejudice against anyone who didn't serve mouthing off about someone who did, and even more so if the veteran in question has paid the price to the extent that Duckworth has.

Well, Governor Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain or Maine never, ever tired of telling the story of the Battle of Little Round Top, that story keeping him in fine dining for the rest of his life, and being really good campaign stump material what's more.

In American politics, military service has never been a quiet thing.

"Tippecanoe and Tyler Too!" - William Henry Harrison was the hero of the battle of Tippecanoe.

Theodore Roosevelt and the Battle of San Juan Hill?

Never has it ever been the standard that a politician with a conspicuous military career would be quiet about it.

And McCain absolutely was not quiet about it, either. Walsh is wrong on that one.

 

[sarge]

Good post. Some very good points. There is nothing so sacred it can't be questioned and I think when it comes to our soldiers it's easy to let skepticism and critical thinking take a back seat to patriotism. I remember how easily I feel for the narratives the military offered us about Jessica Lynch and Pat Tillman because because we want those narratives. Though I should note that the false narratives had nothing to do with their status or bravery. This is wandering. Okay, I guess the point I wanted to make is that putting one's self in harms way is in and of itself heroic and that deserves perhaps a bit of deference. Not that you disagree. Damn, this post is not my finest hour. Anyway, yes, I agree with you.

I think I understood all of that, and if so, I don't disagree.

I do believe that, with the best of intentions, we sometimes accord the mere fact of military service a broader respect than it may deserve. Certainly, it is admirable, especially in a protracted period of war in an all volunteer force. There are benefits of service, however, and not all who serve do so for completely altruistic reasons. I am proud of my service, but truth be told, I probably got more from America than I gave.

 

[Howie Felterbush]

Madrone!

Just did a quick post search - from chicken farmer to an SFOD E8 with a PhD? that's some life.

I see he made it to Bulshido - that's the big time for ********ters - the guy must be related to Frank Dux.

Our own JoeyDonuts pulled Longtabber's card. He also established and confirmed NavySeal's bona fides. (NavySeal is legit.)

I was never in the service, and like many people, I think the term 'hero' gets over-used sometimes, but the guys that fake it are the ones that really make my blood boil. I don't know why, but they do.

 

[RandFan]

I think I understood all of that, and if so, I don't disagree.

I do believe that, with the best of intentions, we sometimes accord the mere fact of military service a broader respect than it may deserve. Certainly, it is admirable, especially in a protracted period of war in an all volunteer force. There are benefits of service, however, and not all who serve do so for completely altruistic reasons. I am proud of my service, but truth be told, I probably got more from America than I gave.

Thanks. Agreed.

 

[tyr_13]

I think I understood all of that, and if so, I don't disagree.

I do believe that, with the best of intentions, we sometimes accord the mere fact of military service a broader respect than it may deserve. Certainly, it is admirable, especially in a protracted period of war in an all volunteer force. There are benefits of service, however, and not all who serve do so for completely altruistic reasons. I am proud of my service, but truth be told, I probably got more from America than I gave.

Sometimes we read more into non service than it may deserve as well. If I ran for office against someone who served, they would be able to say that I didn't sever my country in war and be accurate. The fact that I tried but was rejected for medical reasons wouldn't matter, the implication would that I was lesser or a coward or something.

 

[BStrong]

Sometimes we read more into non service than it may deserve as well. If I ran for office against someone who served, they would be able to say that I didn't sever my country in war and be accurate. The fact that I tried but was rejected for medical reasons wouldn't matter, the implication would that I was lesser or a coward or something.

I'm not sure exactly how that would work in the real world.

I have never voted for someone based on their status as a veteran, and wouldn't assign any negative context to having not served, unless the individual in question was some sort of reflexive sabre rattler.

If a veteran that happened to be running for public office called out their opponent on not having served, and that observation wasn't made in direct relation to a question of military or geopolitical importance I would think less of that veteran.

 

[carlitos]

She’s a bureaucrat. I’m a fighter.

Now that is brutal.

I think you and I can both remember a time when veterans pretty much kept it quiet.

"Waving the Bloody Shirt" (think Bo Gritz) doesn't make somebody any points with me, but I'll admit to my prejudice against anyone who didn't serve mouthing off about someone who did, and even more so if the veteran in question has paid the price to the extent that Duckworth has.

Wow, Bo Gritz. Agree.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Walsh himself; What's his service record?

http://www.rollcall.com/members/30884.html



So, Mr. Walsh never risked his lilly-white ass for his country, but thinks that he is superior to her?

Not in MY America, Mr. Walsh.

Why are you injecting race into this?

 

[carlitos]

Why are you injecting race into this?

Probably just a nuanced objection to Walsh's opposition to bottomless sunbathing.

 

[BenBurch]

Why are you injecting race into this?

Because of the tea baggers who tried to pamphlet me with his stuff the other day. They were telling me that he is the only "real" American in the race. I said, she looks American to me, and one of them said "You know what I mean."

Yeah, I did.

I walked away after asking for a dozen pamphlets so I could throw them in the trash. (Only because they make poor TP.)

 

[sarge]

Sometimes we read more into non service than it may deserve as well. If I ran for office against someone who served, they would be able to say that I didn't sever my country in war and be accurate. The fact that I tried but was rejected for medical reasons wouldn't matter, the implication would that I was lesser or a coward or something.

Indeed. We have had elections pitting a veteran against a non-veteran, with the veteran using the mere fact of service to advantage with voters.

Having served is (usually) admirable. Merely having served, even heroically, does not cause me to believe that a veteran is automatically well qualified for public office. Conversely, I can't imagine assuming that a non-veteran is somehow unqualified for office based soley on his not having served. I would be sceptical of his veteran opponent for attempting to present the non-veteran as less qualified.

In this specific instance, without having invested a moment in learning about either candidate, I suspect that the veteran has used the fact of her service during the campaign (she'd be a fool not to) and Mr. Walsh has hurt his chances by complaining about it.

 

[BenBurch]

...

In this specific instance, without having invested a moment in learning about either candidate, I suspect that the veteran has used the fact of her service during the campaign (she'd be a fool not to) and Mr. Walsh has hurt his chances by complaining about it.

You'd be correct, but add this too;

She got involved in public service with the encouragement of Bob Dole who met with her at Walter Reed, and who dedicated he most recent book in part to her.

As she went through physical therapy, she began to work with other veterans, and helped found the Intrepid Fallen Heroes fund ( http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/ ) to support wounded soldiers and their families, and that foundation built a $55 Million rehab facility in Texas. She has continued to serve, holding the rank of active Lt. Col. in the Illinois ANG. She served as Director of the Illinois Department of Veterans’ Affairs, and then as Assistant Secretary of Public and Intergovernmental Affairs for the United States Department of Veterans Affairs.

So, her service wasn't limited to the event that nearly cost her life, but if anything has been more valuable to the country since that unfortunate day.

She can talk about that endlessly and in exclusion to anything else if she wants to and I have no objections.

However, Walsh lied there too, she talks about many issues, though her stump speech spends a few minutes on her history. As it should.

 

[sarge]

You'd be correct, but add this too;

She got involved in public service with the encouragement of Bob Dole who met with her at Walter Reed, and who dedicated he most recent book in part to her.

As she went through physical therapy, she began to work with other veterans, and helped found the Intrepid Fallen Heroes fund ( http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/ ) to support wounded soldiers and their families, and that foundation built a $55 Million rehab facility in Texas. She has continued to serve, holding the rank of active Lt. Col. in the Illinois ANG. She served as Director of the Illinois Department of Veterans’ Affairs, and then as Assistant Secretary of Public and Intergovernmental Affairs for the United States Department of Veterans Affairs.

So, her service wasn't limited to the event that nearly cost her life, but if anything has been more valuable to the country since that unfortunate day.

She can talk about that endlessly and in exclusion to anything else if she wants to and I have no objections.

However, Walsh lied there too, she talks about many issues, though her stump speech spends a few minutes on her history. As it should.

At the risk of being perceived to defend a position I do not hold, I must say that none of that would necessarily qualify her for Congress. If she spoke only of these public service positions, I would doubt her qualifications for the office she seeks. Of course, none of this answers the real question: relative to Mr Walsh, is she the better qualified candidate. Assuming character counts, I would lean towrds Ms Duckworth.

 

[carlitos]

As she went through physical therapy, she began to work with other veterans, and helped found the Intrepid Fallen Heroes fund ( http://www.fallenheroesfund.org/ ) to support wounded soldiers and their families, and that foundation built a $55 Million rehab facility in Texas. She has continued to serve, holding the rank of active Lt. Col. in the Illinois ANG. She served as Director of the Illinois Department of Veterans’ Affairs, and then as Assistant Secretary of Public and Intergovernmental Affairs for the United States Department of Veterans Affairs.

I saw that on her Wikipedia page. Assuming she went to physical therapy for her injury sustained in November of 2004, she would have been in therapy in 2005. The Intrepid Fallen Heroes Fund was established in 2003. According to their webpage, by 2005 they had already raised and spent $20 million. She's not listed as being on the founding board. And google tells me:

Your search - duckworth site:fallenheroesfund.org - did not match any documents.

It's not mentioned in the various online profiles I read about her potential appointment as VA director either. Has somebody sexing up her wikipedia entry, or what? She has a stellar resume as it stands, and did a great job as Illinois Veterans Affairs Director.

 

[BenBurch]

I'll ask her, Carlitos.

ETA: Emailed a query. I'll let you know what she says.

 

[carlitos]

Gracias.

 

[BenBurch]

Some searching - I see her mentioned in connection in several stories, usually in connection with the 2010 opening ceremonies when she was with the VA.