JFK's assassination: your thoughts

[Mudcat]

So Garrison was right. Shaw did perjure himself.

So, Shaw was mistaken thus perjury? In what universe?

 

[BStrong]

Simple reason for that. You can't ship ammo since 1938.

Not through the U.S. postal service, but believe me, you could buy ammo by the truckload - literally - out of ads in The Shotgun News.

Still the same way today except for certain municipalities that restrict the practice.

 

[abaddon]

Not through the U.S. postal service, but believe me, you could buy ammo by the truckload - literally - out of ads in The Shotgun News.

Still the same way today except for certain municipalities that restrict the practice.

And I am sure LHO did that or something similar. There would be no way to trace it, not easily.

 

[Robrob]

Yeah, you would never remember the only person to buy it after they had shot the president.

"Only person" you know this, how? If you sold more than a box or two of any kind of ammo a day, why would you remember some random customer who bought some random box of ammo - seven months and (at just two boxes a day) 336 sales later? Per your own statements, he probably bought the ammo in April, seven months before he shot JFK in November. In your world, does everyone have an eidetic memory?

You might not be aware that the Warren Commission did exhaustive study of possible sources of Oswald's arms. They traced the Carcano order to Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago and the order form to a magazine Oswald accessed in the New Orleans parking garage he hung out and got paid off by FBI in.

Evidence?

Oswald was a defector and known pro-Castro-ite agitator. Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes was an agent for the HT Lingual letter opening program at the Dallas Post Office. There's no way they would have missed any bullet orders.

So, no evidence just argument from incredulity? Why am I not surprised...

So what is this ammunition problem? 6.5x52 was not a problem to obtain in 1963, I can still get it now for my Carcano if I choose not to use reloads. Why should there be any paper trail for buying ammunition?

Is there a chance that Oswald went to a sporting goods store (or anywhere else ammunition is sold) and paid cash for a box or two?

Not in CT-land. According to JB, there were only two stores in all of Texas selling that caliber.

So in the connect-the-dots fantasy world, Shaw was connected to Permindex.

Permindex was a CIA front.

That proves Shaw was CIA and fully informed about Permindex and their covert activities, and that means Shaw was CIA and did evil CIA skullduggery in NOLA and Dallas.

This is the same sort of "seven degrees of LHO" he did with the Albert Einstein School in Switzerland. LHO has an unfinished school application. The school was associated with a guy. The guy was associated with a different organization (supposedly) associated with CIA. Therefore = conspiracy.

 

[abaddon]

If he picked up the gun March 25th and allegedly shot at General Walker on April 10th then it is reasonable to assume he would have bought the ammunition in Dallas in the period in between. If it was different ammunition then we have Oswald showing one pattern in his enormous paper trail of buying the rifle and the complete opposite in his getting two sets of ammunition without any trace. Three sets if you include the handgun ammunition.

You might not be aware that the Warren Commission did exhaustive study of possible sources of Oswald's arms. They traced the Carcano order to Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago and the order form to a magazine Oswald accessed in the New Orleans parking garage he hung out and got paid off by FBI in. Oswald was a defector and known pro-Castro-ite agitator. Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes was an agent for the HT Lingual letter opening program at the Dallas Post Office. There's no way they would have missed any bullet orders.

Sorry for your trouble, but ammo is not sold by mail order. It is a federal offence to do so. That is, of course, why the carcano was delivered unloaded and without ammo. That was the only way it could be legally shipped.

Are we to believe your claim that somehow LHO could not visit the only two stores stocking the ammo in Dallas, or that somehow the clerks in said stores would eidetically recall LHO after the fact? Or could it be that LHO could have obtained ammo by any number of other means both legal and illegal?

Or did the mail order gun store suddenly decide to risk their entire business for no reason at all and went ahead and shipped the ammo without documentation, payments or receipts? Maybe they were in on it?

Or could it be that LHO simply went to a gunstore and bought ammo for cash?

ETA: Or as bstrong pointed out above, let his fingers do the walking in the small ads section.

 

[LSSBB]

Sorry for your trouble, but ammo is not sold by mail order. It is a federal offence to do so. That is, of course, why the carcano was delivered unloaded and without ammo. That was the only way it could be legally shipped.

Are we to believe your claim that somehow LHO could not visit the only two stores stocking the ammo in Dallas, or that somehow the clerks in said stores would eidetically recall LHO after the fact? Or could it be that LHO could have obtained ammo by any number of other means both legal and illegal?

Or did the mail order gun store suddenly decide to risk their entire business for no reason at all and went ahead and shipped the ammo without documentation, payments or receipts? Maybe they were in on it?

Or could it be that LHO simply went to a gunstore and bought ammo for cash?

ETA: Or as bstrong pointed out above, let his fingers do the walking in the small ads section.

Palmed some off a buddy.
Found some lying around.
Got them from a guy he knew.
Wife bought them.
Shop owner forgot.
Shoplifted them.

 

[Tolls]

...complete opposite in his getting two sets of ammunition without any trace. Three sets if you include the handgun ammunition.

So he didn't shoot Tippit either...because if he did shoot Tippit then you are employing different criteria to the different sets of ammo. And I'm afraid that arguing that Oswald didn't shoot Tippit is on significantly flakier ground than arguing he didn't shoot JFK.

 

[kookbreaker]

Yeah, you would never remember the only person to buy it after they had shot the president.

Would I? Some guy comes into the store, buys some ammo - not the most common kind but hardly rare. 3 dozen people are in the store buying ammo that same day, and months later the guy shoots the president.

Your memory that good? Or is it just good at making stuff up?

Even if I did remember, if nobody from the DPD or FBI came into the store with an old receipt Oswald kept I would not go gabbing about it to the media or the buffs: "Hey I sold the bullets that killed the President and a local cop! Go me!".

 

[kookbreaker]

Palmed some off a buddy.
Found some lying around.
Got them from a guy he knew.
Wife bought them.
Shop owner forgot.
Shoplifted them.

Once again, this movie scene comes to mind:

 

[LSSBB]

Once again, this movie scene comes to mind:

Can't watch it, blocked for copyright in U.S.

 

[kookbreaker]

It the scene from 'The Messenger' where the probably-a-delusion monk played by Dustin Hoffman explains why maybe the sword Joan of Arc found in the field wasn't quite the godsend she thinks it was.

Funny scene and apt IMHO.

Here is another version, maybe it will work. The part I was talking about starts around 2:15

 

[Jetblast]

So he didn't shoot Tippit either...because if he did shoot Tippit then you are employing different criteria to the different sets of ammo. And I'm afraid that arguing that Oswald didn't shoot Tippit is on significantly flakier ground than arguing he didn't shoot JFK.

Read DiEugenio. The bullets found in Tippit's body didn't match the shell casings.


You are forgetting that although the Oswald figure at the Tippit scene was seen leaning against Tippit's patrol car and talking to him through his window there were no Oswald fingerprints on that car when tested.

Oswald didn't have enough time to get from Mrs Roberts' rooming house to the scene.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Read DiEugenio. The bullets found in Tippit's body didn't match the shell casings.


You are forgetting that although the Oswald figure at the Tippit scene was seen leaning against Tippit's patrol car and talking to him through his window there were no Oswald fingerprints on that car when tested.

Oswald didn't have enough time to get from Mrs Roberts' rooming house to the scene.

Who do you think killed Officer Tippit?

 

[Ranb]

Read DiEugenio. The bullets found in Tippit's body didn't match the shell casings.

Other than caliber (width) how did DiEugenio match (or not) any bullet to the cartridge case?

You are forgetting that although the Oswald figure at the Tippit scene was seen leaning against Tippit's patrol car and talking to him through his window there were no Oswald fingerprints on that car when tested.

So? To leave detectable fingerprints a person has to press their fingers against a surface smooth enough to lift from or find. If the fingers are rubbed against the surfce then no prints. It is possible to lean against something without using the hands/fingers

Oswald didn't have enough time to get from Mrs Roberts' rooming house to the scene.

How did you determine this?

 

[Jetblast]

Sorry for your trouble, but ammo is not sold by mail order. It is a federal offence to do so. That is, of course, why the carcano was delivered unloaded and without ammo. That was the only way it could be legally shipped.

Are we to believe your claim that somehow LHO could not visit the only two stores stocking the ammo in Dallas, or that somehow the clerks in said stores would eidetically recall LHO after the fact? Or could it be that LHO could have obtained ammo by any number of other means both legal and illegal?

Or did the mail order gun store suddenly decide to risk their entire business for no reason at all and went ahead and shipped the ammo without documentation, payments or receipts? Maybe they were in on it?

Or could it be that LHO simply went to a gunstore and bought ammo for cash?

ETA: Or as bstrong pointed out above, let his fingers do the walking in the small ads section.

My mistake, but it doesn't change anything.

If you read Gil Jesus he has found serious problems with the rifle. DiEugenio said they never cashed the money order. It was never stamped. While ordering the 36 inch Carcano model Oswald received the 40 inch model. Highly unlikely seeing how they were considered 2 different rifles. Also, the shipping weight for the 100 rifle stock order on the invoice from Lipschultz Shipping conformed to 100 36 inch rifles.


It remains true that CIA was the biggest orderer of that ammunition in the US.


Oswald was in the lunch room and never fired a shot as his virgin clean paraffin test showed at the Dallas Police station.

 

[Jetblast]

Other than caliber (width) how did DiEugenio match (or not) any bullet to the cartridge case?

Scroll down and read 'Strange Evidence'. There were 2 Remington cases and 2 Western Cartridge. There were 3 Western Cartridge bullets and 1 Remington taken out of Tippit's body.


http://www.ctka.net/pr198-jfk.html

 

[Jetblast]

Who do you think killed Officer Tippit?

One of the CIA pigs who conspired to kill JFK.

 

[Jetblast]

Could be that someone gave or LHO found 6.5 ammo and bought the rifle to use the ammo.

Absolutely yes. The CIA people who were framing him.


Walker was on record as saying the bullet he saw at the scene did not match that shown in evidence.

 

[BStrong]

My mistake, but it doesn't change anything.

If you read Gil Jesus he has found serious problems with the rifle. DiEugenio said they never cashed the money order. It was never stamped. While ordering the 36 inch Carcano model Oswald received the 40 inch model. Highly unlikely seeing how they were considered 2 different rifles. Also, the shipping weight for the 100 rifle stock order on the invoice from Lipschultz Shipping conformed to 100 36 inch rifles.


It remains true that CIA was the biggest orderer of that ammunition in the US.

Oswald was in the lunch room and never fired a shot as his virgin clean paraffin test showed at the Dallas Police station.

Interesting.

I have no problem imagining that there would be a use for standard WWII service rifle calibers (30/06, 8mm Mauser, .303 British) for proxy wars and arming various groups, but nobody other than the WWII Italian military adopted the 6.5 or the Carcano and even the Italians themselves immediately adopted the 30/06 after the war, and Beretta was turning out M1 Garand rifles as soon as they got their facilities up and running.

The Italians went alnog with the US and NATO in adopting the 7.62 x 51 NATO round, and have adopted the 5.56mm as well.

So where was this great demand for 6.5 x 52 and who was using the Carcano?

 

[Ranb]

If you read Gil Jesus he has found serious problems with the rifle. DiEugenio said they never cashed the money order. It was never stamped. While ordering the 36 inch Carcano model Oswald received the 40 inch model. Highly unlikely seeing how they were considered 2 different rifles. Also, the shipping weight for the 100 rifle stock order on the invoice from Lipschultz Shipping conformed to 100 36 inch rifles.

You've never read about errors in firearms record keeping before? It is not that unusual. Check Bullseye Shooting Supply in Tacoma and their problems related to the DC sniper. Ordering a rifle with a 36" barrel and getting the wrong one? Big deal. Mistakes happen all the time.

It remains true that CIA was the biggest orderer of that ammunition in the US.

Evidence and who cares anyway?

Oswald was in the lunch room and never fired a shot as his virgin clean paraffin test showed at the Dallas Police station.

Why do you expect this test to be reliable enough to prove or disprove that a rifle was fired by the suspect?