JFK's assassination: your thoughts

[Jetblast]

Byrd's politics are irrelevant, as neither he, nor his company hired LHO.

Unless you can show us some evidence that the landlord can vet the employees of a tenant...

No, the manager Roy Truly could be an open communist if he so desired. Makes sense to me.

Meanwhile Oswald was worked into this building by CIA operative Ruth Paine.

 

[Dcdrac]

No, the manager Roy Truly could be an open communist if he so desired. Makes sense to me.

Meanwhile Oswald was worked into this building by CIA operative Ruth Paine.

ok so you do not know that happened and do you have any evidence for the second sentence at all?

 

[Border Reiver]

No, the manager Roy Truly could be an open communist if he so desired. Makes sense to me.

Meanwhile Oswald was worked into this building by CIA operative Ruth Paine.

I would like you to think about it just for a second, by what right would the landlord of a commercial property have to vet the employees of a tenant?

 

[Mudcat]

Shaw was CIA and lied.

No, Shaw was not CIA. He was a member of the CIA.

Also what did he say, exactly, that you believe was a lie and on what evidence do you base that?

Mark Lane got CIA Mexico Station Chief David Atlee Phillips to admit Oswald was never in Mexico City.

Sounds like the CIA received intelligence that Oswald had been in Mexico but discovered that it was not so. Hardly surprising, they probably received intelligence suggesting he had been in all manner of places, again illustrating the unreliability of eye witnesses.

This proves CIA framed Oswald in advance - proving their involvement.

The CIA was mistaken about Oswald being in Mexico, thus conspiracy? Does that sum up your argument right?

Angleton worked with Clay Shaw in the OSS in WWII.

Two men in the same line of work worked together years earlier, thus conspiracy? And that doesn't sound silly to you?

Byrd helped form the Civil Air Patrol and was a Dallas right-winger.

Texas is traditionally a conservative state so I don't see how Byrd's right-leaning tendencies are in any way suspicious or even remotely relevant.

The Depository was not a pro-Kennedy building.

How exactly does a building have any kind of political affiliation? It's a building for the love of Altana!

What I wrote is true and the Oswald palm print did not appear on the rifle until after FBI visited the funeral home.

What you wrote is untrue because the print was a latent, which could only have been generated while Oswald was still alive.

Dallas police did not find that print in their original test.

Untrue.

So what you're saying is any witnesses that claim they saw Oswald are all 100% reliable and any who saw the real plotters are always unreliable?

Begging the question.

You simply fold and concede. Thanks.

A bit too early to be doing your victory laps, Jetblast.

 

[kookbreaker]

Sure Oswald would be easy to forget even though his face was all over the media

All over? He had minimal coverage at best prior to shooting JFK.

and the bullets were not frequently bought.

Means nothing. If someone buys one of the rarer items in my store I doubt I would remember their face some months later.

 

[BStrong]

No, Shaw was not CIA. He was a member of the CIA.

Also what did he say, exactly, that you believe was a lie and on what evidence do you base that?



Sounds like the CIA received intelligence that Oswald had been in Mexico but discovered that it was not so. Hardly surprising, they probably received intelligence suggesting he had been in all manner of places, again illustrating the unreliability of eye witnesses.



The CIA was mistaken about Oswald being in Mexico, thus conspiracy? Does that sum up your argument right?



Two men in the same line of work worked together years earlier, thus conspiracy? And that doesn't sound silly to you?




Texas is traditionally a conservative state so I don't see how Byrd's right-leaning tendencies are in any way suspicious or even remotely relevant.



How exactly does a building have any kind of political affiliation? It's a building for the love of Altana!




What you wrote is untrue because the print was a latent, which could only have been generated while Oswald was still alive.



Untrue.


Begging the question.


A bit too early to be doing your victory laps, Jetblast.

Was Shaw a contract employee or a full fledged IO?, I can't remeber which.

 

[Mudcat]

Was Shaw a contract employee or a full fledged IO?, I can't remeber which.

That, I do not know. I was just picking nits.

 

[BStrong]

That, I do not know. I was just picking nits.

I wasn't trying to bust agates, There is a difference as to affiliation and involvement, and with everything considered it's really not that important.

Garrison's fantasy was even farther away from the mark than other CT's, and it really seemed to me to be a mix-n-match of whatever caught his fancy, and wholly unsupported by the available evidence in any case.

Like I've said before, the old saying is that a DA can get the Grand Jury to indict a ham sandwich, But Garrison would try to indict the sandwich, eat it, and then wonder where it went.

 

[Robrob]

Sure Oswald would be easy to forget even though his face was all over the media and the bullets were not frequently bought.

1) It wasn't when he bought the ammo.

2) Strange there would be only two gun dealers in all of Dallas.

3) Remembering someone you saw just once briefly months ago would be unusual.

4) He may not have even bought the ammo in Dallas.

Right. So even though they had all the information on the ordering of the rifle they had none on the ordering of the bullets? And Oswald didn't order the bullets with the gun?

FBI checked all sources. They found no orders going to Oswald's Post Office Box from any source. It wasn't a common type of bullet.

Out of curiosity, could you provide a link or citation for that claim? I was not aware the Post Office kept track of what mail someone receives at a Post Office Box. Or is your claim the FBI checked with every gun dealer in the United States?

 

[Tolls]

...the bullets were not frequently bought.

You have a cite for this?

I only ask because the US was flooded with Carcano's from 1960, which were Italian surplus. These were initially the 6.5mm, but later the 7.35 came in from a different source.

 

[Jetblast]

Was Shaw a contract employee or a full fledged IO?, I can't remeber which.

Deniers tried to say there was no evidence that Shaw was connected to Permindex. Permindex was a CIA front in Italy designed to funnel covert money to CIA black ops in Europe. When the Italian government investigated Permindex they could not find how it got its funding so they kicked it out of Italy. Meanwhile researchers discovered Shaw had listed his membership on Permindex's board in his New Orleans resume.

 

[Jetblast]

Means nothing. If someone buys one of the rarer items in my store I doubt I would remember their face some months later.

Yeah, you would never remember the only person to buy it after they had shot the president.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Well? Amazingly I didn't see a thread on this so what the heck

I think most "CTs" are people's over-active imaginations, but I don't think so in this case. I won't go on and on about the why's which have been beaten to death but feel free, maybe I'll chime in later Basically there are just way too many suspicious things/loose ends/etc.

Actually, there are no "suspicious things" or "loose ends". Oswald, acting alone, did it. There's no "probably" about it, so the poll is invalid.

 

[Mudcat]

Yeah, you would never remember the only person to buy it after they had shot the president.

And if he bought the ammunition through the mail, how would the person who sold it to him be able to recognize him?

 

[Jetblast]

1) It wasn't when he bought the ammo.

2) Strange there would be only two gun dealers in all of Dallas.

3) Remembering someone you saw just once briefly months ago would be unusual.

4) He may not have even bought the ammo in Dallas.

If he picked up the gun March 25th and allegedly shot at General Walker on April 10th then it is reasonable to assume he would have bought the ammunition in Dallas in the period in between. If it was different ammunition then we have Oswald showing one pattern in his enormous paper trail of buying the rifle and the complete opposite in his getting two sets of ammunition without any trace. Three sets if you include the handgun ammunition.

Out of curiosity, could you provide a link or citation for that claim? I was not aware the Post Office kept track of what mail someone receives at a Post Office Box. Or is your claim the FBI checked with every gun dealer in the United States?

You might not be aware that the Warren Commission did exhaustive study of possible sources of Oswald's arms. They traced the Carcano order to Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago and the order form to a magazine Oswald accessed in the New Orleans parking garage he hung out and got paid off by FBI in. Oswald was a defector and known pro-Castro-ite agitator. Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes was an agent for the HT Lingual letter opening program at the Dallas Post Office. There's no way they would have missed any bullet orders.

 

[Ranb]

If he picked up the gun March 25th and allegedly shot at General Walker on April 10th then it is reasonable to assume he would have bought the ammunition in Dallas in the period in between. If it was different ammunition then we have Oswald showing one pattern in his enormous paper trail of buying the rifle and the complete opposite in his getting two sets of ammunition without any trace. Three sets if you include the handgun ammunition.

There's no way they would have missed any bullet orders.

So what is this ammunition problem? 6.5x52 was not a problem to obtain in 1963, I can still get it now for my Carcano if I choose not to use reloads. Why should there be any paper trail for buying ammunition?

Is there a chance that Oswald went to a sporting goods store (or anywhere else ammunition is sold) and paid cash for a box or two?

 

[BStrong]

Deniers tried to say there was no evidence that Shaw was connected to Permindex. Permindex was a CIA front in Italy designed to funnel covert money to CIA black ops in Europe. When the Italian government investigated Permindex they could not find how it got its funding so they kicked it out of Italy. Meanwhile researchers discovered Shaw had listed his membership on Permindex's board in his New Orleans resume.

So in the connect-the-dots fantasy world, Shaw was connected to Permindex.

Permindex was a CIA front.

That proves Shaw was CIA and fully informed about Permindex and their covert activities, and that means Shaw was CIA and did evil CIA skullduggery in NOLA and Dallas.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm of the opinion that Shaw, having a bunch of different things going on in different circles. might be just the type of guy that the CIA would like to talk to from time to time, but I don't see Shaw as any type of covert operator, and for sure not a "hey, let's shoot JFK!" type of guy.

If you want to get away from the New Orleans Garrison Fantasy CT and into something with a bit more meat to it that did revolve around New Orleans, read up on the McLaney brothers and their ties to the right and the anti-Castro Cubans, and one of their running buddies, a guy by the name of Tex Cody.

Might want to think about how Garrison missed all of that noise.

At the end of the story, it all comes down to LHO in the TSBD anyway, and all the other interesting tangents that CT hawkers/believers get all giddy over are neat stories with nothing deeper that entertainment value.

 

[RoboTimbo]

If he picked up the gun March 25th and allegedly shot at General Walker on April 10th then it is reasonable to assume he would have bought the ammunition in Dallas in the period in between. If it was different ammunition then we have Oswald showing one pattern in his enormous paper trail of buying the rifle and the complete opposite in his getting two sets of ammunition without any trace. Three sets if you include the handgun ammunition.

Where do you think he got the ammo to assassinate the President then?

You might not be aware that the Warren Commission did exhaustive study of possible sources of Oswald's arms. They traced the Carcano order to Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago and the order form to a magazine Oswald accessed in the New Orleans parking garage he hung out and got paid off by FBI in. Oswald was a defector and known pro-Castro-ite agitator. Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes was an agent for the HT Lingual letter opening program at the Dallas Post Office. There's no way they would have missed any bullet orders.

Please provide a list of all the people in Dallas who purchased mail order ammo in 1963. Note that if you can't, you are conceding your defeat.

 

[abaddon]

Right. So even though they had all the information on the ordering of the rifle they had none on the ordering of the bullets? And Oswald didn't order the bullets with the gun?

FBI checked all sources. They found no orders going to Oswald's Post Office Box from any source. It wasn't a common type of bullet.

Simple reason for that. You can't ship ammo since 1938.

 

[BStrong]

If he picked up the gun March 25th and allegedly shot at General Walker on April 10th then it is reasonable to assume he would have bought the ammunition in Dallas in the period in between.
If it was different ammunition then we have Oswald showing one pattern in his enormous paper trail of buying the rifle and the complete opposite in his getting two sets of ammunition without any trace. Three sets if you include the handgun ammunition.


You might not be aware that the Warren Commission did exhaustive study of possible sources of Oswald's arms. They traced the Carcano order to Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago and the order form to a magazine Oswald accessed in the New Orleans parking garage he hung out and got paid off by FBI in. Oswald was a defector and known pro-Castro-ite agitator. Dallas Postal Inspector Harry Holmes was an agent for the HT Lingual letter opening program at the Dallas Post Office. There's no way they would have missed any bullet orders.

Or it could explain something very fundemental not addressed by the various CT'ers - why did Oswald choose the Carcano when other better designed/more powerful surplus rifles were available?

Could be that someone gave or LHO found 6.5 ammo and bought the rifle to use the ammo.

I once bought a rifle in 9.3 x 64mm because someone gave me a quantity of the ammunition and I'd had no previous experience with the cartridge, I wasn't going to allow an opportunity to burn free ammo get away from me (Free my ass, the rifle was 1,300.00 bucks)