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Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

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Here is a screenshot album from John Orr's presentation at the JFK mock trial of some many interesting angles of the 3D animation: https://imgur.com/a/TbNJ5


I'm wondering how this project will be critiqued, maybe there can be more projects to see what trajectories would work around the z190-224 areas by probing the photographic evidence.

Well, for starters, it can be critiqued in the same way, with the same criticisms, you posted for Dale Myers' recreation.

All we know about his animation is a clip from a propaganda internet special and some screenshots ..... He has not released his computer data. Is this the behavior of a man who used photographic evidence to prove one of the biggest forensic controversies ever? No. ... These people do little more than create CARTOONS as explanatory tools...

Moreover, there's scant evidence his assumptions built into the case are true. He claims the bullet that struck JFK deflected upwards after striking bone in JFK's body. The autopsy disagrees with him about that. So does the HSCA pathology panel. But this CT knows more than the autopsists who had the body of JFK in front of them. This CT knows more than the HSCA pathology panel with over 100,000 autopsies conducted between them, and who studied the extant autopsy evidence to reach their conclusions.

Gee, where have I heard that refrain before?

He has a shot at Z204 striking JFK, somehow deflecting upwards, and causing the damage to the chrome over the windshield (but not the windshield damage itself, which he ignores, and not the back of the interior car mirror which also suffered damage), another bullet at Z236 striking Connally, and a third striking JFK in the head.

And he claims there was an additional shot that struck James Tague.

But as noted in an earlier post - which you ignored - he has the timeline involving Tague exactly backward. The Warren Commission determined there was a problem with the timing of the shots well before James Tague testified (he claims Tague's testimony led the Commission to conclude there was one shot that struck both men, but nothing could be further from the truth).

He puts an additional shooter on the roof of the Criminal Courts building, but no one saw a shooter there, no evidence of a shooter there was ever found, and no bullets or bullet fragments not traceable to Oswald's weapon was ever recovered.

In other words, like conspiracy theorists everywhere, he has a theory and has no evidence to support it.

And in the end, he justifies his conclusion with circular reasoning, "All I can answer is, 54 years later, he [Marcello, whom he names as a mastermind behind the assassination conspiracy] hasn't been charged. He got away with it. So he must have done something right."1
Not at all surprising that he resorts to logical fallacies to justify his conclusions.

Of course, neither you nor I have been charged either, so by his logic, we got away with it too!

Hank
______________

1 I ran across this logic in Dallas at a JFK assassination conference in the early 1990's as well. Two conspiracy theorists gave a talk concerning the Sylvia Odio incident (where three men met with this woman, whose father was anti-Castro and involved with the anti-Castro movement, and one was introduced to her as an 'loco' American named Leon Oswald who felt the President should be shot).

After exploring some of the testimony and issues, their conclusion was that Oswald was being doubled by someone attempting to frame Oswald for the assassination in advance.

My question during the question-and-answer period was simple: "If the goal was to frame Oswald a lone-nut pro-Castro assassin, why would the conspirators put him in the company of anti-Castro forces? How does that frame him for being a lone-nut pro-Castro assassin?"

They conferred for a moment with the microphone covered by their hand, and announced their momentous conclusion: "We don't know, but it worked!"

Hilarious.
 
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Surely we must consider the possibility of alternate universes merging before we accept a conspiracy.

No, they are part and parcel of the same logic. It's not necessarily an either / or proposition. Both could be true, both could be false, or either could be true and the other false.

There's even an argument that these merging universes are affecting the JFK assassination, based on (what else?) your favorite 'evidence', recollections from decades after the fact:
https://steemit.com/mandelaeffect/@veritees/jfk-assassination-has-changed-mandela-effect

https://medium.com/@justindanneman/mandela-effect-the-jfk-assassination-b9509907c29d

So there's four possibilities:

(1) The Mandela Effect is just like other conspiracy theorists, based primarily on what people remember, takes evidence out of context, and ignores the hard evidence.

(2) JFK conspiracy theorists are on the right track but the Mandela Effect people are whackos.

(3) The Mandela Effect people are on the right track but the JFK conspiracy people are whackos.

(4) Both the Mandela Effect people and the JFK conspiracy theory people are on the right track, and their critics are whackos.


Of course, if we open the discussion to the moon landing, Pearl Harbor, 9/11, and other assorted conspiracy theories, the possibilities expand exponentially.

But let's limit ourselves to these two for the moment.

Which possibility do you favor?

And why?

Hank
 
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Some interesting screenshots from the 3D animation shown at the mock trial.

Here is the link to a photo album: [URL="https://imgur.com/a/TbNJ5"][URL="https://i.imgur.com/oA0ThvC.png"]https://i.imgur.com/oA0ThvC.png[/URL][/URL]

It would be more interesting if it were based on fact.

The bullet didn't strike anything solid, it's a through & through in a mostly straight line.

The angle is too steep.

Fact is nothing in this animation would work with a 6.5x52mm round.
 
And in the end, he justifies his conclusion with circular reasoning, "All I can answer is, 54 years later, he [Marcello, whom he names as a mastermind behind the assassination conspiracy] hasn't been charged. He got away with it. So he must have done something right."1

The problem with "The Mafia Did It" theories is that assassinating JFK is not something they would do. JFK's womanizing made him a blackmail asset, and if you have dirt on the most powerful man in the country you're life just got a lot easier.

And if you don't know how the Mafia makes blackmail work - even to this day - then you need to read up before linking them to the crime of the last century.

As for those mob informants who alluded to Marcello and or Giancana being behind the assassination over the years? What better way to intimidate people than hinting you iced JFK in broad daylight? Talk about free advertising.
 
Hank, I do not care about John Orr's personal ideas, just the veracity of this 3D animation.
 
The problem with "The Mafia Did It" theories is that assassinating JFK is not something they would do. JFK's womanizing made him a blackmail asset, and if you have dirt on the most powerful man in the country you're life just got a lot easier.

And if you don't know how the Mafia makes blackmail work - even to this day - then you need to read up before linking them to the crime of the last century.

As for those mob informants who alluded to Marcello and or Giancana being behind the assassination over the years? What better way to intimidate people than hinting you iced JFK in broad daylight? Talk about free advertising.


And the blackmail angle goes double for any conspiracy theories involving J. Edgar Hoover. Hoover had a file on the Kennedy family the size of a phone book and could have ended JFK's presidency at any time he wished. He had absolutely no reason to get involved with a conspiracy to kill Kennedy that could have led to murder or treason charges and, probably more importantly to him, the complete destruction of a reputation that he had spent 50 years building.

And given Hoover's total control over the FBI, it defies reason that any large conspiracy could exist in the FBI without his knowledge. One or two corrupt agents, sure, but the dozens, if not hundreds, of agents that would be required for most of the "cast of thousands" conspiracies alleged where all the evidence is faked and FBI agents are threatening all the witnesses? Extremely unlikely for a number of reasons.
 
Well, for starters, it can be critiqued in the same way, with the same criticisms, you posted for Dale Myers' recreation.



Moreover, there's scant evidence his assumptions built into the case are true. He claims the bullet that struck JFK deflected upwards after striking bone in JFK's body. The autopsy disagrees with him about that. So does the HSCA pathology panel. But this CT knows more than the autopsists who had the body of JFK in front of them. This CT knows more than the HSCA pathology panel with over 100,000 autopsies conducted between them, and who studied the extant autopsy evidence to reach their conclusions.

Gee, where have I heard that refrain before?

He has a shot at Z204 striking JFK, somehow deflecting upwards, and causing the damage to the chrome over the windshield (but not the windshield damage itself, which he ignores, and not the back of the interior car mirror which also suffered damage), another bullet at Z236 striking Connally, and a third striking JFK in the head.

And he claims there was an additional shot that struck James Tague.

But as noted in an earlier post - which you ignored - he has the timeline involving Tague exactly backward. The Warren Commission determined there was a problem with the timing of the shots well before James Tague testified (he claims Tague's testimony led the Commission to conclude there was one shot that struck both men, but nothing could be further from the truth).

He puts an additional shooter on the roof of the Criminal Courts building, but no one saw a shooter there, no evidence of a shooter there was ever found, and no bullets or bullet fragments not traceable to Oswald's weapon was ever recovered.

In other words, like conspiracy theorists everywhere, he has a theory and has no evidence to support it.

And in the end, he justifies his conclusion with circular reasoning, "All I can answer is, 54 years later, he [Marcello, whom he names as a mastermind behind the assassination conspiracy] hasn't been charged. He got away with it. So he must have done something right."1
Not at all surprising that he resorts to logical fallacies to justify his conclusions.

Of course, neither you nor I have been charged either, so by his logic, we got away with it too!

Hank
______________

1 I ran across this logic in Dallas at a JFK assassination conference in the early 1990's as well. Two conspiracy theorists gave a talk concerning the Sylvia Odio incident (where three men met with this woman, whose father was anti-Castro and involved with the anti-Castro movement, and one was introduced to her as an 'loco' American named Leon Oswald who felt the President should be shot).

After exploring some of the testimony and issues, their conclusion was that Oswald was being doubled by someone attempting to frame Oswald for the assassination in advance.

My question during the question-and-answer period was simple: "If the goal was to frame Oswald a lone-nut pro-Castro assassin, why would the conspirators put him in the company of anti-Castro forces? How does that frame him for being a lone-nut pro-Castro assassin?"

They conferred for a moment with the microphone covered by their hand, and announced their momentous conclusion: "We don't know, but it worked!"

Hilarious.

FTR - Aside from the conspiracy mongers assertions that Carlos Marcello was some NOLA version of Mad Sam Destefano, his success and long leadership of the NOLA franchise and eventual death from disease rather than violence was because he "knew how everyone liked they coffee," as opposed to killing anyone that pissed him off.
 
This is why you fail. The 3D animation was made to support his personal ideas, and is slanted to that end. You can't just take the animation out of context, which runs contrary to your EOP 1000%.

Do you think this animation supports the cowlick entry theory? It shows the trajectory roughly up to the roof of the Dallas County Records. Dale Myers' animation has that trajectory going 100 feet above the Dal-Tex. In both animations, that angle going straight and entering the cowlick would exit the face.

This 3D animation is shown morphing into frames of the Zapruder Film. More is shown of it than Dale's.
 
Do you think this animation supports the cowlick entry theory?

No. Nobody other than you, is pushing the animation as evidence to support any theory. Nobody else considers it to contain useful or accurate information.
If it does not use your supposed EOP wound, or frontal shots, it is not useful for discussion your wrong claims either.

It shows the trajectory roughly up to the roof of the Dallas County Records. Dale Myers' animation has that trajectory going 100 feet above the Dal-Tex. In both animations, that angle going straight and entering the cowlick would exit the face.

Point in case.
Do you have evidence for the shooter being on the roof of that building?
Do you (whose theory necessitates a bullet to be deflected when entering a skull) have evidence that a straight line should be assumed?

Nope. Ergo, you are wasting time discussing an irrelevance.

This 3D animation is shown morphing into frames of the Zapruder Film. More is shown of it than Dale's.
And?
A morphing effect does not suggest accuracy. It suggests they made an animation about what they want to believe, based on a single frame.
 
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Do you think this animation supports the cowlick entry theory?

Straw man argument. Nobody has even suggested that.

You offered it here as a rebuttal of sorts to Myers.

We pointed out the problems.

You ignore them and now fling a straw man into the fray.

How could you expect that to go well for you?

But anything to prolong the conversation so it looks like you have an argument, eh?

Now back to those unaddressed points you never rebutted...

Like this animation, if correct, destroys entirely all your prior arguments about the head wound(s) made in the last 18+ months.


It shows the trajectory roughly up to the roof of the Dallas County Records. Dale Myers' animation has that trajectory going 100 feet above the Dal-Tex. In both animations, that angle going straight and entering the cowlick would exit the face.

Asked before, never answered: Where's the evidence for the upward deflection in JFK's back that the animation puts in?

Thanks for pointing out yet another problem with the animation you brought up initially.


This 3D animation is shown morphing into frames of the Zapruder Film. More is shown of it than Dale's.

What part of 'GIGO' didn't you understand? You never addressed one criticism of the animation. That doesn't instill confidence that it's correct. If those criticisms were not valid, I for one would think you'd be ready, willing and able to defend the animation you brought to the table.

You haven't even tried.

Hank
 
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There are indeed local Emmy awards. Here is a PDF of the winners for Chicago and the Midwest. NATAS members do the voting, but only for local content.

Some, yes. But the Myers video was included in a national broadcast, wasn't it? And won for best animation? Yes?

It wasn't just broadcast on some local news station. It was part of ABC News nationwide broadcast as the 40th anniversary of the assassination neared (broadcast nationwide on 11/20/2003).

Details here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387490/

And regardless, even if the Myers animation won Emmys for local broadcasts, that is less impressive exactly why? By contrast, how many Emmys did the video cited by MicahJava win?

Hank
 
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Do you think this animation supports the cowlick entry theory?

Nope, it just contradicts your sad theory.



It shows the trajectory roughly up to the roof of the Dallas County Records.

And that's wrong.

Dale Myers' animation has that trajectory going 100 feet above the Dal-Tex. In both animations, that angle going straight and entering the cowlick would exit the face.

Wow, you said that like it's true. It's not. His animation traces the neck shot back to the 6th floor of the TSBD.

This 3D animation is shown morphing into frames of the Zapruder Film. More is shown of it than Dale's.

Nobody cares. Style over substance. Plus his animation was created in 2003 and was state of the art FOURTEEN YEARS AGO. This new animation just shows how you can misuse CGI to spread Woo.
 
Some, yes. But the Myers video was included in a national broadcast, wasn't it? And won for best animation? Yes?

It wasn't just broadcast on some local news station. It was part of ABC News nationwide broadcast as the 40th anniversary of the assassination neared (broadcast nationwide on 11/20/2003).

Details here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387490/

And regardless, even if the Myers animation won Emmys for local broadcasts, that is less impressive exactly why? By contrast, how many Emmys did the video cited by MicahJava win?

Hank



You’re welcome.
 
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