You're far too absolutist for my taste. In a world of grey, you see only in black and white.
Jeremy Bamber
- Thread starter Samson
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You're far too absolutist for my taste. In a world of grey, you see only in black and white.
In crime only one thing happened. Controversial cases are binary so once the impossible is dispensed with the answer stands resolute.
But you write as though you know exactly what happened. You don't. I don't either.
Bamber shot his mother in bed, his father in the bedroom (the stair theory has been shredded), the twins in their bedroom, and shot his sister in the throat whilst she was standing up. She fell in a heap, but didn't die, so he shot her again where she lay, positioned the rifle on as though she had committed suicide, exited the house through a window, went home and rang the police with a bogus story about a call from his father. Unfortunately for him, he told his girlfriend, and she told the police.
Those trying to manufacture Sheila's guilt have to air-brush away the obvious signs of a fight in the kitchen (because there are no forensics on Sheila suggesting she was in a fight). They have to invent a new location for Nevil's shooting (despite all the bullet casings being in the bedroom) because they need Nevil to be downstairs at the time Sheila shot her mother. They also have to invent some twaddle to cover the fact that Sheila is supposed to have "gone berserk with a gun" before killing anyone, and yet 3 people in the house were asleep in bed when shot.
Really, Bamber supporters are just obsessives with no grasp of reality. And believe it or not, not a single second of Bamber's incarceration has been the fault of Theresa May. Yes, really!
Those trying to manufacture Sheila's guilt have to air-brush away the obvious signs of a fight in the kitchen (because there are no forensics on Sheila suggesting she was in a fight). They have to invent a new location for Nevil's shooting (despite all the bullet casings being in the bedroom) because they need Nevil to be downstairs at the time Sheila shot her mother. They also have to invent some twaddle to cover the fact that Sheila is supposed to have "gone berserk with a gun" before killing anyone, and yet 3 people in the house were asleep in bed when shot.
Really, Bamber supporters are just obsessives with no grasp of reality. And believe it or not, not a single second of Bamber's incarceration has been the fault of Theresa May. Yes, really!
Yes it can. It's really really simple.
No. Gormless comment reveals absolutely no clue about the facts of the case. Three of them died in (or alongside) bed having been shot whilst asleep. How do you march around in bed? You had Nevil falling down the stairs after being shot, and landing in the coal scuttle in the kitchen 15 metres away. Yep, folks, that's what we're up against. Any wonder that I can't be bothered?
Correction. I made a comparison between the forensics in Chamberlain, Lundy and BAMBER leading to a false prosecutions and convictions.
Now we are debating here, maybe you can give a detailed crime reconstruction catsmate. Mike has attempted one that does not work on IA.
When I can find it I will post mine. IT WORKS.
The prosecution theory repeated by Carol Ann Lee is a logistical disaster, it is completely impossible according to known bullet trajectories through Nevill and Sheila.
Now you're just making stuff up. All the drawings I did showed the impossibility of Nevil being shot on the stairs, which was the only way the "innocent" brigade could spin the story to support their case. As for "upset".........yes, I was, by the moronic insistence that A/ the Home Office has a role in these criminal justice matters and B/ that Theresa May was personally responsible for Bamber remaining inside. I can't argue with that level of stupid.
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Posted By: zooterkin
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At least 40 people trampling through it, no guard placed on it, no security tape, no record of visitors, stuff (including the rifle) moved prior to being photographed. No, nothing wrong with that at all.....
You're making stuff up. You didn't know that you had shown the impossibility of Neville having been shot on the stairs until it was pointed out to you. I gather you're still sore about that. Bad luck, not much better than the copper's that re-solved the case after it was worked out as being a simple murder suicide. But you contributed to helping others understand that - even though it was their intention. You seem to also be confused that I said anything at all about your dear leader. Glad to see you laugh about a botched inquiry that sent a man away for life because of the certainty of what you know.
No, it's you who is confused. The thing which got me angry, frustrated, and then away from that other forum was Samson's insistence that May was responsible for Bamber being in prison, and that the Home Office had responsibility for criminal justice (hint: there's a reason the Ministry of Justice is called what it's called). As I said, that is a level of stupid I can't cope with.
A reconstruction based on accurate dimensions shows it is very possible. Your drawings that allegedly prove otherwise must have involved the bedroom door being shut.
You might want to have a little look at Rule 11, and have a look at the angle of the bullet entry wounds. Further, two of the shots were from within a matter of inches, making their angle upwards if at the bedroom door, rather than the downwards angle of the entry wounds.
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Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Here is a picture of a gun sound moderator (silencer).
Sheila Caffell's blood was found inside this moderator, identified in 1985 as blood group A. DNA was identified as hers many years later, with the advances in forensic science. 17 out of 20 alleles match Sheila Caffell. Under UK law only 11 matches is needed to make the identification a legally sound one.
Thus, there is no way Caffell could have shot herself in the neck (twice!) with this silencer attached, and returned it to the cupboard where it was found.
Sheila Caffell's blood was found inside this moderator, identified in 1985 as blood group A. DNA was identified as hers many years later, with the advances in forensic science. 17 out of 20 alleles match Sheila Caffell. Under UK law only 11 matches is needed to make the identification a legally sound one.
Thus, there is no way Caffell could have shot herself in the neck (twice!) with this silencer attached, and returned it to the cupboard where it was found.
catsmate
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That would appear be the same "new evidence " presented to the CCRC. five years ago and rejected by them after a detailed rebuttal.
Which is the whole problem with the case. If all we have is the crime scene the last body says suicide. Everything else is made up. No one lies down beside their dead mother to get the same treatment.
No one, not even nutcase Sheila.
The CCRC provided no counter expert testimony to challenge the muzzle imprints on Sheila's chin/neck, as seen in the video.
I cannot attach the document on this site due to file size limits. So I have uploaded it here...Bamber v CCRC 2012
Have you ever heard of a staged crime scene?
Or perhaps you surmise that after the first shot to Ms Caffell's neck, she took the time to bleed on the Bible found on her body, then shut the Bible, then reopen it and arrange it on herself. After her death she magically cleaned her blood from the rifle barrel (the last shot was a contact wound so blood would have been blown back into the barrel), and deposited her blood into the moderator before replacing it in the gun cupboard. Despite being dead, she slid from an almost flat position with her head propped up on a bedside cabinet to being fully laid down, rucking up her nightdress in the process but then pulling only the front of her nightdress down, leaving it rucked up at the back.
Or perhaps you surmise that after the first shot to Ms Caffell's neck, she took the time to bleed on the Bible found on her body, then shut the Bible, then reopen it and arrange it on herself. After her death she magically cleaned her blood from the rifle barrel (the last shot was a contact wound so blood would have been blown back into the barrel), and deposited her blood into the moderator before replacing it in the gun cupboard. Despite being dead, she slid from an almost flat position with her head propped up on a bedside cabinet to being fully laid down, rucking up her nightdress in the process but then pulling only the front of her nightdress down, leaving it rucked up at the back.
No need for conjecture on what you bring up.
Blood does not always end up in the barrel of the gun.
"Blood is more often detected on the outside of the muzzle than inside the barrel. In a study of 653 revolvers, 242 pistols, 181 shotguns, and 124 rifles used in suicides, blood was detected on the barrel 74% of the time for revolvers, 76% for pistols, 85% for shotguns, and 81% for rifles. 4 In contrast, blood was detected inside the barrel in 53% of the revolvers, 57% of pistols, 72% of shotguns, and 58% of rifles. The presence of blood inside the barrel of a gun indicates that the weapon was within a few inches of the body at the time of discharge. Absence of blood on or in the barrel does not preclude a close range or contact wound."
Page 362 of Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques by Vincent J.M. DiMaio
If you wish to argue that a .22lr rifle is powerful enough to create blood drawback and Jeremy committed the crime with silencer attached there is a big problem with that argument. Reason being one of the twins suffered three contact wounds, yet none of his blood grouping was found in the baffles of the silencer.
As Sheila's body and the bible being moved after she died. Police documents confirm they have moved things around before and during the photographs were taken. Lo and behold Sheila's body and the bible.
“Photo of Sheila not in same position as when I saw it”
Head too close to bedside table
Not sure about angle of head but something not right
No recollection of gun
Bible shown next to body, was level with waist 12” – 18” away"
Delgado Dickinson page 8
The abrasion patterns caused by the contact wounds to Sheila's chin and neck confirm the silencer was not on the gun when the fatal shots were fired. Thus the blood was planted in the silencer to help secure a conviction. As for how and who is what requires a degree of surmising and guesswork. However its not difficult to narrow down a list of conspirators who had means, motive and opportunity. That is having access to the silencer and access to Sheila's blood.
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