BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
I remember seeing on TV a report of the guilty verdict in the case of your man crush murdering his family.
Merged Jeffrey MacDonald did it. He really did.
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I remember seeing on TV a report of the guilty verdict in the case of your man crush murdering his family.
Henri McPhee
Illuminator
To my mind Jeff MacDonald's description of Helena Stoeckley as one of the intruders is remarkably accurate seeing as the MacDonald murders happened so quickly. It's only a resemblance. I can't provide an exact reference for the background to all that, but it's still probably on the internet somewhere. As far as I can remember Segal arranged for MacDonald to be interviewed by a police sketch artist, I think in Philadelphia. I can't quite see why MacDonald had to make a scene in court on seeing Helena in order to impress byn:
http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/1970-intruders.html
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It Ain't Going Away
Again...
Despite his penchant for mixing in a little truth with a pack of lies, inmate's bluster about the "bizarre" investigation by CID Agent Bennie Hawkins actually got him off the hook. That was the last time this issue (e.g., New York Four) was a major legal talking point in this case. It was not mentioned at the 1979 trial nor was it mentioned in any subsequent government brief.
The problem for inmate is that this issue will always be part of the documented record and I would love to ask inmate several questions about this issue. I'm surprised that no interviewer has broached this subject with him.
- If this is a non-issue, why did you feel the need to visit the Suffolk County Police Department?
- If this is a non-issue, why did you feel the need to have your lawyer present when you read the New York Four's arrest report?
- Is it merely a coincidence that members of the Stoeckley Seven do not match your descriptions of the intruders whereas the descriptions of the New York Four do match?
- How do you explain the fact that multiple patrons at the Shortstop Bar saw you speaking with 4 individuals who match the descriptions of the New York Four?
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com/html/suspects.html
Again...
Despite his penchant for mixing in a little truth with a pack of lies, inmate's bluster about the "bizarre" investigation by CID Agent Bennie Hawkins actually got him off the hook. That was the last time this issue (e.g., New York Four) was a major legal talking point in this case. It was not mentioned at the 1979 trial nor was it mentioned in any subsequent government brief.
The problem for inmate is that this issue will always be part of the documented record and I would love to ask inmate several questions about this issue. I'm surprised that no interviewer has broached this subject with him.
- If this is a non-issue, why did you feel the need to visit the Suffolk County Police Department?
- If this is a non-issue, why did you feel the need to have your lawyer present when you read the New York Four's arrest report?
- Is it merely a coincidence that members of the Stoeckley Seven do not match your descriptions of the intruders whereas the descriptions of the New York Four do match?
- How do you explain the fact that multiple patrons at the Shortstop Bar saw you speaking with 4 individuals who match the descriptions of the New York Four?
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com/html/suspects.html
Amazingly accurate description of Helena? omg henri you cannot possibly be serious! helena was short, had dark hair and a big nose. while she admitted to owning a wig the description was of a blonde "bob" wig which could NEVER be described as LONG. a bob is a very very short haircut. since inmate couldn't recognize a photo of Helena just 2 months after the murders AND he himself said that she had a distinctive nose and he'd remember that nose it is painfully obvious to anyone who has a couple of functional brain cells that Helena WAS NOT involved and that inmate made up the story. Strengthen that FACT with his non-reaction to Helena when she was brought to the trial and can anyone other than me say "consciousness of guilt"?
Henri McPhee
Illuminator
The description MacDonald gave of the murderers matched that of the Stoeckley group, and which Detective Beasley would have heard over a police radio:
http://people.com/crime/jeffrey-macdonald-suspects-confessed-murder-green-beret-family/
http://people.com/crime/jeffrey-macdonald-suspects-confessed-murder-green-beret-family/
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The description of the "alleged intruders" DID NOT MATCH HELENA OR ANY OF HER FRIENDS ANY MORE THAN VERY VERY PERIPHERALLY. There were hundreds (if not thousands) of me wearing Army Fatigue Jackets with E6 stripes. As shocking as it may seem to you henri there are hundreds of thousands of white men with "pock marked" faces but none of the "alleged Stoeckley group" matched that description.....one of the members of the NY Four did match that description.
Again, HELENA had BROWN HAIR relatively short and the BLONDE WIG she sometimes wore (although she admittedly denied having it on the night of the murders) WAS A BOB CUT therefore there is NO WAY ANYONE COULD DESCRIBE IT AS LONG AND STRINGY WHICH IS INDEED HOW INMATE DESCRIBED THE ALLEGED FEMALE INTRUDER. Also, as I have pointed out several times, Helena had a distinctive nose and inmate could not and did not identify her at the April 4 interview with CID when they showed him the photo. He himself said "I would've remembered that nose" which is the same as saying "that is not the female intruder" and FYI no matter what type of wig her NOSE would not have changed.
Again, HELENA had BROWN HAIR relatively short and the BLONDE WIG she sometimes wore (although she admittedly denied having it on the night of the murders) WAS A BOB CUT therefore there is NO WAY ANYONE COULD DESCRIBE IT AS LONG AND STRINGY WHICH IS INDEED HOW INMATE DESCRIBED THE ALLEGED FEMALE INTRUDER. Also, as I have pointed out several times, Helena had a distinctive nose and inmate could not and did not identify her at the April 4 interview with CID when they showed him the photo. He himself said "I would've remembered that nose" which is the same as saying "that is not the female intruder" and FYI no matter what type of wig her NOSE would not have changed.
Inmate Is Describing The NYF
Inmate just happens to visit his brother at Fire Island 6 months before the murders. Jay MacDonald just happens to share a residence with 4 individuals who match the descriptions of the mythical hippie home invaders. Inmate just happens to be seen by several witnesses conversing with 4 individuals who match the descriptions of his brother's roommates. Who were Jay MacDonald's roommates?
Dubbed by the CID as the "New York Four," Kenneth Barnett, Annette Cullity, Gary Burnett, and Joseph Lee were sharing a residence with Jay MacDonald in the Summer of 1969. Joseph Lee was an African-American male, Gary Burnett and Kenneth Barnett were Caucasian males, and Annette Cullity was a Caucasian female. When the New York Four were arrested in Suffolk County, Lee was wearing an army field jacket and Cullity was known to wear a floppy hat and hip boots.
The number of intruders, their racial make-up, and their clothing items all matched the descriptions provided by Jeffrey MacDonald. CID agent Bennie Hawkins obtained fingerprint exemplars of the New York Four and their prints did not match any of the prints found at 544 Castle Drive. Bennie Hawkins testified to the following at the Article 32 hearing.
Somers: Can you describe this group?
Hawkins: Yes, sir, it was a group of four. There were three males and one female in the group. The one male, Negro, approximately 5-9 in height, 170 pounds in weight, black hair, brown eyes. There were two Caucasian males, one of them approximately 5-10 in height with dark brown hair, hazel eyes, of about medium build. The other Caucasian male was approximately 5-6 in height, blond hair, and blue eyes. The female approximately 5-5 to 5-6 in height, 110 pounds in weight. She had blond hair and blue eyes.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
Inmate just happens to visit his brother at Fire Island 6 months before the murders. Jay MacDonald just happens to share a residence with 4 individuals who match the descriptions of the mythical hippie home invaders. Inmate just happens to be seen by several witnesses conversing with 4 individuals who match the descriptions of his brother's roommates. Who were Jay MacDonald's roommates?
Dubbed by the CID as the "New York Four," Kenneth Barnett, Annette Cullity, Gary Burnett, and Joseph Lee were sharing a residence with Jay MacDonald in the Summer of 1969. Joseph Lee was an African-American male, Gary Burnett and Kenneth Barnett were Caucasian males, and Annette Cullity was a Caucasian female. When the New York Four were arrested in Suffolk County, Lee was wearing an army field jacket and Cullity was known to wear a floppy hat and hip boots.
The number of intruders, their racial make-up, and their clothing items all matched the descriptions provided by Jeffrey MacDonald. CID agent Bennie Hawkins obtained fingerprint exemplars of the New York Four and their prints did not match any of the prints found at 544 Castle Drive. Bennie Hawkins testified to the following at the Article 32 hearing.
Somers: Can you describe this group?
Hawkins: Yes, sir, it was a group of four. There were three males and one female in the group. The one male, Negro, approximately 5-9 in height, 170 pounds in weight, black hair, brown eyes. There were two Caucasian males, one of them approximately 5-10 in height with dark brown hair, hazel eyes, of about medium build. The other Caucasian male was approximately 5-6 in height, blond hair, and blue eyes. The female approximately 5-5 to 5-6 in height, 110 pounds in weight. She had blond hair and blue eyes.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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desmirelle
Critical Thinker
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Which shows you know nothing about the US Army and CID. They'd have gotten letters of recommendations had they been able to find those mythical hippies and exonerate CPT Macdonald. And probably promotions for the lead investigators. The army doesn't like for their personnel to present themselves as murdering slime, especially in 1970 when the Vietnam War is unpopular and soldiers are being spit on and called 'baby-killers'.
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
You'll need to explain how seeing a black man with E6 rank on their jacket or shirt would be "remarkable" on base at Ft. Bragg.
Joseph Lee
Piggybacking on BStrong's post, the only "remarkable" aspect of inmate's description of the mythical black male intruder is that no member of the television media has pointed out that Joseph Lee matched that description to a tee. This includes his physical characteristics and the type of clothing he wore in 1970. I'll give Fred Bost a little credit in that he publicly admitted that Dwight Smith did not match inmate's description of the black male intruder.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
Piggybacking on BStrong's post, the only "remarkable" aspect of inmate's description of the mythical black male intruder is that no member of the television media has pointed out that Joseph Lee matched that description to a tee. This includes his physical characteristics and the type of clothing he wore in 1970. I'll give Fred Bost a little credit in that he publicly admitted that Dwight Smith did not match inmate's description of the black male intruder.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
Henri McPhee
Illuminator
Fred Bost was not a professional criminal investigator, though he wrote sense about the MacDonald case. I agree that the black man in the MacDonald case is confusing. There were numerous suspects for the black man, including perhaps Joseph Lee, and including one or two at the trailer park which Detective Beasley mentioned. The point is that Dwight Smith was interviewed by the North Carolina Bureau of Investigation the day after the murders. He could not remember where he was the night before, and the same with Helena Stoeckley. At least the others in the Stoeckley group gave a false alibi. It's ridiculous and the Army CID and FBI were lousy detectives to accept it.
http://earonsgsk.proboards.com/thread/1597/jeffrey-macdonald-case-xiulan
http://earonsgsk.proboards.com/thread/1597/jeffrey-macdonald-case-xiulan
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BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
Imaginary persons are not confusing. For some reason, lot's of bad actors come up with an imaginary black perp:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-college-guard-shot-self-on-campus-blamed-black-man/
ST. PAUL -- Police in Minnesota say a campus security guard who claimed he had been shot by a "black man in a hoodie" actually shot himself, reports CBS affiliate WCCO.
Police said they arrested 25-year-old Brent Patrick Ahlers after he admitted he accidentally shot himself on duty Tuesday night at St. Catherine University in St. Paul.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...riend-blames-fake-black-man-article-1.3493449
A Missouri man awaiting trial for a pair of rape charges allegedly shot his girlfriend by mistake and then blamed it on a mysterious black man authorities suspect he made up.
Aaron Zumwalt, a convicted felon who is out on bond in the rape case, was at his friend’s Republic home with his girlfriend when she suddenly felt a pain in her leg, according to court documents cited by the Springfield News-Leader. When she looked down, she saw the lower part of her shirt was covered in blood and realized she’d been shot.
https://www.alternet.org/news-amp-p...cused-innocent-people-color-crimes-they-didnt
NEWS & POLITICS
10 Times White People Falsely Accused Innocent People of Color of Crimes They Didn't Commit
Racial hoaxes have a long history in America.
Maybe there's an underlying reason why "The Black Man" figures so prominently in your misunderstanding of the proven facts in this case.
BStrong left out one of the most infamous "black man" did it cases in American criminal history.....Susan Smith.....she let her car roll down the boat ramp and into the lake with her two young sons strapped into their car seats in the back and then made pleas on camera for the safe return of her babies and 2 weeks where every young black male in the area was unfairly under suspicion. Of course, inmate WAS the most infamous until Susan Smith imho.....
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
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Actually, in the Susan Smith case the police were quite restrained and were doubtful from the start. But only because of the police antics in the Charles Stuart case, was more like what you describe above.
Even the media, who gave Smith air time for her empty pleas, was viewing with a jaundiced eye but did so because there was still hope the children might still be alive.
Inmate's Inspiration
Contrary to the bizarre assertions by the landlord, there are no confusing elements to this issue. Dwight Smith was linked to the African-American suspect by Stoeckley, but he didn't meet the physical description given by inmate, his fingerprints were not found at the crime scene, and he denied involvement (e.g., FBI, Pat Reese) in this case.
New York Four member Joseph Lee DID match inmate's description, but he denied involvement to CID agent Bennie Hawkins and his fingerprints were not found at the crime scene. In the 48 year history of this case, these two men have been the only viable African-American suspects. The problem for the defense is that there isn't a shred of evidence linking either suspect to this crime.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
Contrary to the bizarre assertions by the landlord, there are no confusing elements to this issue. Dwight Smith was linked to the African-American suspect by Stoeckley, but he didn't meet the physical description given by inmate, his fingerprints were not found at the crime scene, and he denied involvement (e.g., FBI, Pat Reese) in this case.
New York Four member Joseph Lee DID match inmate's description, but he denied involvement to CID agent Bennie Hawkins and his fingerprints were not found at the crime scene. In the 48 year history of this case, these two men have been the only viable African-American suspects. The problem for the defense is that there isn't a shred of evidence linking either suspect to this crime.
http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
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Henri McPhee
Illuminator
The Susan Smith case is not relevant to the MacDonald case. I agree that there are lots of black people in this world, and that Joseph Lee is, or was, a black man. A murder squad has to focus on priorities. Dwight Smith has been proved to be in the Stoeckley group. There is some background information about this at this website:
http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/gunderson_summary.html
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Henri McPhee
Illuminator
This is suspicious with regard to Dwight Smith:
http://www.crimearchives.net/1979_macdonald/affidavits/1984-07-12_EDNC_fbi_aff03_madden.html
http://www.crimearchives.net/1979_macdonald/affidavits/1984-07-12_EDNC_fbi_aff03_madden.html
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Susan Smith's case is as relevant as any other case of a "black man" did it statement from the actual perp.
What? You think that Joseph Lee is no longer a "black man"?
What murder squad?
There was no "Stoeckley Group" however, yes Dwight Smith knew the people that Helena hung with.....BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM MAGICALLY MATCH THE DESCRIPTION GIVEN BY INMATE. Facts are FACTS henri. Dwight Smith did not then and never has or will matched the description of the "black male" that inmate gave. Joseph Lee DID match the description. This is circumstantial evidence that the "intruders" were fictional. He described his brother's roomies because they fit the inmate's image of hippies.....and used the Manson family murders to explain the murders of his family....funny because Manson family members didn't consider themselves "hippies". I believe the term they used was "yippies"....the thought hippies were pacifist Pollyannas.
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
Every case involving an actor that invents suspects to cover for their actions is related to your man crush. He wasn't the first and won't be the last.
There's a reason why all your assertions of what this or that agency or individual should have done in the investigation or prosecution fails.
Your beliefs on criminal investigation and the administration of justice aren't reality based.
Henri McPhee
Illuminator
You start off with half-suspicions and Dwight Smith and Pat Reese were suspicious. They were never really cleared. The focus was on the innocent MacDonald from the first minute.
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