Merged Jeff Farrer Reshashes Jones's nonsense

[Miragememories]

Is that an attempt to personalize the argument?

I can't speak for Oystein, but I'll cop to not being a lab manager.

Okay.

I'm willing to believe you are not a lab manager.

Your declaration would not surprise me in the least.

I could go on but then it would become personal and we wouldn't want that.

MM

 

[The Almond]

SO2 is not the same as S.

MM, this is probably why you shouldn't engage in these types of debates. Dr. Greening is indeed correct that when you "liberate" sulfur from gypsum wallboard, it comes out as SO₂. The SO₂ molecule is reactive, and will cause corrosion of a wide variety of materials, including steel. You appear to be copying and pasting haphazardly selected portions of text without understanding the context or reasoning contained therein.

 

[Miragememories]

MM, this is probably why you shouldn't engage in these types of debates. Dr. Greening is indeed correct that when you "liberate" sulfur from gypsum wallboard, it comes out as SO₂. The SO₂ molecule is reactive, and will cause corrosion of a wide variety of materials, including steel. You appear to be copying and pasting haphazardly selected portions of text without understanding the context or reasoning contained therein.

Well.

You know what they say.

Appearances can be deceiving.

MM

 

[tsig]

Well.

You know what they say.

Appearances can be deceiving.

MM

Yes they can be that's why just looking at a video or reading a paper without understanding is insufficient to draw valid conclusions.

 

[ElMondoHummus]

MM, this is probably why you shouldn't engage in these types of debates. Dr. Greening is indeed correct that when you "liberate" sulfur from gypsum wallboard, it comes out as SO₂. The SO₂ molecule is reactive, and will cause corrosion of a wide variety of materials, including steel. You appear to be copying and pasting haphazardly selected portions of text without understanding the context or reasoning contained therein.

He said what?? (*Facepalm*)

This is why I put him on ignore. Not saying you should, Almond; I'm only pointing out that MM's uneducatable, and refuses to think his way through responses. He only posts to be argumentative, nothing more.

For you, Almond, or anyone else who's curious: Greening discussed the liberation of reductive species in the plethora of burning materials; for example, the PVC that would also be present in the building could also have released corrosive chemical species - HCl, or even Cl₂ - that could've contributed to the corrosion noted, as well as released sulfur itself. You, of course, know that when someone like Greening posits individual chemical reactions to make his argument, he's not saying that they're the only ones occuring; rather, all he's saying is that they're illustrating the point that he's trying to make.

And yes, agreed: Sulfur dioxide is indeed painfully corrosive to steel period, let alone at the temperatures seen in a structure fire. I mean, people are concerned about steel corrosion over time at normal outdoor temperatures from acid rain. Take that to a higher temperature state and you end up with elevated reaction kinetics. That's basic, freshman level chemistry.

 

[The Almond]

He said what?? (*Facepalm*)

This is why I put him on ignore. Not saying you should, Almond; I'm only pointing out that MM's uneducatable, and refuses to think his way through responses. He only posts to be argumentative, nothing more.

For you, Almond, or anyone else who's curious: Greening discussed the liberation of reductive species in the plethora of burning materials; for example, the PVC that would also be present in the building could also have released corrosive chemical species - HCl, or even Cl₂ - that could've contributed to the corrosion noted, as well as released sulfur itself. You, of course, know that when someone like Greening posits individual chemical reactions to make his argument, he's not saying that they're the only ones occuring; rather, all he's saying is that they're illustrating the point that he's trying to make.

And yes, agreed: Sulfur dioxide is indeed painfully corrosive to steel period, let alone at the temperatures seen in a structure fire. I mean, people are concerned about steel corrosion over time at normal outdoor temperatures from acid rain. Take that to a higher temperature state and you end up with elevated reaction kinetics. That's basic, freshman level chemistry.

Indeed. In truth, the decomposition of gypsum wallboard due to fire, along with a variety of other building materials, is an extremely well understood phenomenon. There are perhaps 100 papers on this subject alone in various fire research journals, and Dr. Greening's work does reflect some of that research. Then again, the only reason we care is because some goofballs decided that sulfur is only present in thermate, and so unicorns must all be Canadian citizens (or something like that).

Frankly, there are 4 threads (5 now? 6???) on this subject, and not a single one of them has added anything substantively to this subject. Fly-by cut and paste responses and out-in-left-field craziness is all we've had so far.

 

[Oystein]

Are you speaking from position of equal academic authority?
...

You are an unskeptical disciple of certain obscure and irrelevant lab technician whom you ascribe to the highest echelons of academia, bestowed with unassailable authority, under whose foot you seem to feel unworthy, unworthy, unworthy.

I see more and more how all this science talk is a profound mystery to you. That's why you allude to authority, and authority only.

 

[Miragememories]

You are an unskeptical disciple of certain obscure and irrelevant lab technician whom you ascribe to the highest echelons of academia, bestowed with unassailable authority, under whose foot you seem to feel unworthy, unworthy, unworthy.

I see more and more how all this science talk is a profound mystery to you. That's why you allude to authority, and authority only.

Highest?

I am just acknowledging the position he has attained in the academic hierarchy.

A PhD is nothing to snub your nose at even though that is what you are doing.

I watched the interview with the man. He did not come across as someone
woefully ignorant about what he talked.

He seemed quite knowledgeable, sincere and open to those who might disagree with him.

Traits I have to say, appear to be non-existent in any of your
posts.

MM

 

[excaza]

I watched the interview with the man. He did not come across as someone
woefully ignorant about what he talked.

He seemed quite knowledgeable, sincere and open to those who might disagree with him.

So does Kent Hovind if you have no clue about the subject matter he's talking about.

 

[Oystein]

So does Kent Hovind if you have no clue about the subject matter he's talking about.

This.

(He makes much more sense than Judy Wood, I have to admit that )

 

[Miragememories]

So does Kent Hovind if you have no clue about the subject matter he's talking about.

Is that a no-so-veiled reference to your avatar?

Too funny.

MM

 

[A W Smith]

liberating sulfer from drywall circa 2001 to 2007

too funny. I got your sulfur right here.

http://www.chinesedrywall.com/

Chinese Drywall refers to defective or tainted drywall imported from China from 2001 to 2007 which
emits sulfur gasses which usually (but not always) creates a noxious odor and corrodes copper and
other metal surfaces, thereby damaging your air conditioner, electrical wiring, copper plumbing,
appliances and electronics. Chinese drywall can also cause adverse health effects, although experts
disagree whether these effects are merely irritants or present a more imminent or chronic health
hazard. Not all drywall manufactured in China is defective.

Any doubt that sulfur couldn't easily be released from drywall pre 2001?

 

[Miragememories]

too funny. I got your sulfur right here.

http://www.chinesedrywall.com/


Any doubt that sulfur couldn't easily be released from drywall pre 2001?

Now prove it was chemically available and existed in WTC on 9/11.

I surprised you haven't suggested farts were the cause.

MM

 

[A W Smith]

Merrie Melodies moves the goalposts

Now prove it was chemically available and existed in WTC on 9/11.

I don't need to, All i need to prove is that Jeff Farres assertion is incorrect

Originally Posted by Jeff Farrer
"...in order for you to get sulphur out of the wall board you've got to heat up the gypsum board to high enough temperatures to dissociate the calcium from the sulphur. And then you would have free sulphur and then the sulphur could attack the steel and create these sulphide phases which go into the grain boundaries. You have got to get extremely high temperatures to dissociate those two things. And then certainly if you've got those temperatures, you've got the temperature to melt the steel. So this would require high temperatures. Certainly higher temperatures than you would get in normal office fires. This is impossible to achieve in a normal office fire. Even a jet-fuel fed office fire."

Which I did
http://www.chinesedrywall.com/

Chinese Drywall refers to defective or tainted drywall imported from China from 2001 to 2007 which
emits sulfur gasses which usually (but not always) creates a noxious odor and corrodes copper and
other metal surfaces, thereby damaging your air conditioner, electrical wiring, copper plumbing,
appliances and electronics. Chinese drywall can also cause adverse health effects, although experts
disagree whether these effects are merely irritants or present a more imminent or chronic health
hazard. Not all drywall manufactured in China is defective.

this at ROOM TEMPERATURE

 

[excaza]

Is that a no-so-veiled reference to your avatar?

Too funny.

MM

No, it's a not-veiled reference to idiots listening to smooth talking idiots.

 

[Miragememories]

I don't need to, All i need to prove is that Jeff Farres assertion is incorrect

Which I did
http://www.chinesedrywall.com/
this at ROOM TEMPERATURE

And somehow this gas forms pure sulphur?

"More significantly probably, was the sulphur content that we found. In fact in one piece, I found a pore in the steel that had pure sulphur embedded in the pore, which I thought was very strange and that is when I really began looking for sulphur and finding it in great abundance in some of these phases. So then the next question is how do you get the sulphur in these pieces of steel or in the debris? And that question is unanswered."

MM

 

[leftysergeant]

Now prove it was chemically available and existed in WTC on 9/11.

It didn't even have to come from the drywall. There were tons of actual sulphuric acid in all of the buildings and it all became available when the battery cases in which it was contained were crushed in the colapses.

 

[Miragememories]

It didn't even have to come from the drywall. There were tons of actual sulphuric acid in all of the buildings and it all became available when the battery cases in which it was contained were crushed in the colapses.

Gee. Now why didn't FEMA think of that?

Maybe because what Dr. Barnett, and Dr. Farrer observed in the steel was in no way the result of exposure to sulphuric acid?

"More significantly probably, was the sulphur content that we found. In fact in one piece, I found a pore in the steel that had pure sulphur embedded in the pore, which I thought was very strange and that is when I really began looking for sulphur and finding it in great abundance in some of these phases."

MM

 

[Dave Rogers]

So no doubt there's lots of unassailable evidence of thermite reactions leaving abundant residues of pure sulphur, right?

Dave

 

[Oystein]

Gee. Now why didn't FEMA think of that?

Maybe because what Dr. Barnett, and Dr. Farrer observed in the steel was in no way the result of exposure to sulphuric acid?

"More significantly probably, was the sulphur content that we found. In fact in one piece, I found a pore in the steel that had pure sulphur embedded in the pore, which I thought was very strange and that is when I really began looking for sulphur and finding it in great abundance in some of these phases."

MM

How did he look for it? If he used the same incompetent methods as he did on the red layers, then he won't know if he was looking at S or SO2, or any other compound containing sulfur.