Japan earthquake + tsunami + nuclear problems

Fear mongering on NBC news right now.

This is always a problem with news media unfortunately. I remember during the Three Mile Island accident the "most trusted news anchor", "Uncle" Walter Cronkite, mentioning in prime time that radiation was detected penetrating the 3 ft. thick containment. Now THAT level of radiation would be genuine cause to panic. Turned out the story was plain wrong but the damage to public confidence was done. And you'll still find some of the anti-nuke crowd even today talking about the radiation that went through 3 feet of concrete.
Follow the news as you will, but realize the situation is confused and changing and don't take every report as gospel.
 
I think most people will be swayed by what they see, and nuclear power just became political poison. Again.

Cripes, I hope that's not true, because we need nuclear energy now more than ever.

ETA: As the "go to physics guy" at my school, I'm going to make sure that I'm as informed as possible of what's going on so as to counter the inevitable nonsense that some folks are going to be spewing.
 
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This seems resonable...based on the information, it appears that hydrogen probably leaked out of the reactor, primary containment and the suppression torus at the bottom of the reactor and then exploded. This is likely what was seen on the video as a concrete/dust explosion.

This is bad...the core is probably a pile of debris in the bottom of the vessel now.
glenn

Why so bad if the core debris is still inside of the containment vessel? I mean, beyond the fact that the plant is essentially wrecked; if the core material is still contained, there should be minimal release of radiation. Is it a problem because if they cannot cool the core wreckage it might be able to melt through the walls of the containment vessel?
 
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Actually pretty much every single news report does contradict this. The issue being is that even if you shut the reaction down it still needs to be cooled. TThe cooling systems were working and failed after the tsunami hit. So the reality is that everything pretty much was going all right until they lost power.

Yeah that is actually kind of bizarre. The newer systems automatically shut themselves down and none of this idiotic need for redundant power systems. Namely because the cooling is passive and not active.

from the other thread.

History of the plant: The reactor in question was ordered by Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) in 1965, with construction beginning in 1966. The plant first went critical in October of 1970 and was formally commissioned and put into operation on March 26, 1971. It is a General Electric BWR-3 (boiling water reactor) with an electric power output of 460 megawatts. Over the years it has operated quietly and without incident, but due to its age had been scheduled for decommissioning on March 26, 2011. It is a first generation BWR.

Good grief.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6968313&postcount=749
 
The Canadian Nuclear Society has issued a statement on some of the claims made in the Canadian media by a representative of the anti-nuclear movement:

Got a link to that statement? I can't find it.

I searched the CNS website, and I found this news update page. In addition, I found an informative assessment of the current situation from there when the CNS referenced this statement made by the Chief Cabinet Secretary of Japan.

The American Nuclear Society also has a page with updates of the situation, though I haven't taken the time to look at it in detail.
 
Why so bad if the core debris is still inside of the containment vessel? I mean, beyond the fact that the plant is essentially wrecked; if the core material is still contained, there should be minimal release of radiation. Is it a problem because if they cannot cool the core wreckage it might be able to melt through the walls of the containment vessel?

It is doubtful it will melt through the vessel...TMI provided data proving that unlikely. However it may melt through a rod drive mechanism, but it wouldn't get much further. This will be a mess to clean up and will take years--and that is what I was really thinking when I wrote the post.

Some containmenation has leaked out based on the iodine and cesium reports assuming they are accurate.

glenn
 
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/jap...-lax-said-expert/story-fn84naht-1226020553408

A JAPANESE expert on nuclear safety warned more than three years ago that the policy of building large numbers of reactors in the middle of a volatile earthquake zone could lead to catastrophe. As the authorities battled to avert a meltdown at the Fukushima plant, it emerged that a senior figure in Japan's nuclear community resigned in protest from a safety panel saying guidelines to protect atomic power plants from earthquake damage were too lax.
Ishibashi Katsuhiko, a professor at Kobe university, said seismic guidelines brought in to protect Japan's 55 reactors in 2006 were "still seriously flawed".
He pointed out that big quakes had taken place in "close proximity" to three nuclear power plants in Japan from 2005 to 2007. In each case, the ground motion caused by the quake was stronger than that for which the plants had been designed.
A tremor at the Kashiwazaki Kariwa plant, about 300km across the main island from Fukushima, had experienced a tremor with ground motion of 993 gal (a measure of ground movement), far beyond its design value of 450 gal.
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"Not only are the new design guidelines defective but the system to enforce them is in a shambles," wrote Professor Katsuhiko after his resignation. He said it was just a matter of luck that the epicentre of each earthquake had not been nearer.
In an article in 2007 explaining his resignation, Professor Katsuhiko said almost all of the Japanese archipelago had entered a period of brisk seismic activity since the Kobe earthquake of 1995.
"Unless radical steps are taken now to reduce the vulnerability of nuclear power plants to earthquakes, Japan could experience a true nuclear catastrophe in the near future," he wrote.


I don't know if he last part is true, but Japan is one of the most active places in the world for quakes, and you would expect that they would be building plants that are capable of what is reasonably expected in the worst case. If the next one is closer, it sounds like the existing nuclear plants won't be able to cope.
 
It is doubtful it will melt through the vessel...TMI provided data proving that unlikely. However it may melt through a rod drive mechanism, but it wouldn't get much further. This will be a mess to clean up and will take years--and that is what I was really thinking when I wrote the post.

Some containmenation has leaked out based on the iodine and cesium reports assuming they are accurate.

glenn

So. as I have suspected all along, the likely worst case scenario is a long & expensive cleanup, NOT THIS...



... which is the fearmongering the media seems to be playing into. Hmmm, I wonder which one sells more newspapers & airtime on TV/cable? :rolleyes:
 
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Would you care to outline precisely what you mean by "the worst case"?

C'mon, that quake shifted the axis of the entire planet by 4 inches - I'm amazed the nuclear plants are holding up as well as they are considering how much energy was released between the earthquake & subsequent tsunami. What is more "worst case" than that?

I find all of this armchair quarterbacking quite frustrating.


Want some more frustration?

Tune in to the Geraldo creature on Faux News.

With the banner below reading "Thousands Flee Reactor" they were interviewing Paul Gunter, who's spent the last thirty years making a living as an anti-nuke alarmist.

He was pontificating on the "China Syndrome" and Chernobyl, and how easily that could happen this time.

Then Geraldo says'

"But we don't want to alarm anyone."
Priceless.

:mad:
 
Would you care to outline precisely what you mean by "the worst case"?

C'mon, that quake shifted the axis of the entire planet by 4 inches - I'm amazed the nuclear plants are holding up as well as they are considering how much energy was released between the earthquake & subsequent tsunami. What is more "worst case" than that?

I find all of this armchair quarterbacking quite frustrating.

The thing is, you have ordinary buildings that have survived better than a nuclear plant. I would have expected that a nuclear plant would demand higher standards.
 
The thing is, you have ordinary buildings that have survived better than a nuclear plant. I would have expected that a nuclear plant would demand higher standards.

The important parts of the nuclear plants, such as the containment vessels, are still intact. The front offices where the snack machines are located? Probably not so much. Can you point out a situation here where the containment vessel is broken?

I also noticed that you have dodged my previous question, so I shall ask it again: what would constitute, for you, a "worst case" scenario in terms of an earthquake hitting?
 
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