Jamie Oliver and 'vomiting faeces'

[RamblingOnwards]

In a recent episode of Jamie Oliver (which I did not watch but have been regaled with) a nutritionist claimed that he had children who were so constipated they were vomiting faeces.

I was under the impression that the sphincter at the bottom of the stomach would make that impossible. I did a google search and all I can find are discussions of the Jamie Oliver program and sex sites.

So I ask you all instead - fact or fiction?

 

[Donks]

Are you sure that wasn't a South Park episode?

 

[Dr. Imago]

So I ask you all instead - fact or fiction?

Fact. Search "ileus" and see if you have more luck.

-TT

 

[Kiless]

Groan...

 

[Eos of the Eons]

when the rectum is full, the defecation reflex will occur, emptying the bowel. This type of bowel problem is called an upper motor neuron or reflex bowel. It can be managed by causing the defecation reflex to occur at a socially appropriate time and place.

It seems even in cases of spinal cord injuries that the claim that a child could get so backed up they vomited feces is highly unlikely. There are these reflexes...

http://depts.washington.edu/rehab/sci/pamp_bowels01.html

Try to find one actual case where someone vomitted feces and I'll be right in there to see why...what odd physical problem must exist for that to ever happen? Ah, I see "ileus". Does the sCAM claim the child had any cause of ileus or just that claim that the kid was JUST constipated and ended up getting ileus because of no good sound reason? I would think a child with ileus is going to need a lot more help than sCAM could ever provide.

Ileus can also be caused by kidney diseases, especially when potassium levels are decreased. Heart disease and certain chemotherapy drugs, such as vinblastine (Velban, Velsar) and vincristine (Oncovin, Vincasar PES, Vincrex), also can cause ileus. Infants with cystic fibrosis are more likely to experience meconium ileus (a dark green material in the intestine).

http://www.chclibrary.org/micromed/00052600.html

Even other actual bowel problems and constipation do not result in feces going through the small intestine, past the duodenum, and right past the stomach's own sphincters. Instead:

http://www.uchicagokidshospital.org/online-library/content=P01992

 

[Dr. Imago]

I actually once saw a patient in the ER vomit feces. It was, literally, well-formed brown poop coming out of their mouth. Looked exactly like it. Smelled exactly like it. Definitely a high "wretch-factor" for everyone unfortunate enough to have actually witnessed it.

-TT

 

[Dr. Imago]

Encopresis is something entirely different, Eos.

-TT

 

[Eos of the Eons]

What was the cause of it though? "Just" constipation? I find these sCAM types push their "remedies" by scaring everyone into thinking you have to use their remedies constantly to avoid that horrific scenario.

I looked up ileum though too, and it has causes other than just a plain old everyday case of constipation.

I think it has to be rather serious to end up with vomiting feces, and not just a case of not using some sCAM remedy regularly enough.

 

[Boo]

Gee, thanks TT. I thought I had succesfully repressed that particular olfactory memory. You can just rock me to sleep tonight.


Hint: Always carry a small jar of Vicks vapor rub. A dab in each nostril can help immensly when dealing those olfactory challenging patients and cases.


Boo

 

[Dr. Imago]

What was the cause of it though? "Just" constipation? I find these sCAM types push their "remedies" by scaring everyone into thinking you have to use their remedies constantly to avoid that horrific scenario.

I honestly don't know the cause in that particular patient because I wasn't following her. Could have been a host of things, I suppose, from previous bowel/abdominal surgery, etc. to who-knows-what. All I know is that it was disgusting.

-TT

 

[Dr. Imago]

Hint: Always carry a small jar of Vicks vapor rub. A dab in each nostril can help immensly when dealing those olfactory challenging patients and cases.

The worst are still abcesses. Nothing beats an abcess in the puke-o-rama department. It's just dead, decaying, rotting flesh smell. I'm getting queasy just thinking about the last I&D I saw...



-TT

 

[Eos of the Eons]

I honestly don't know the cause in that particular patient because I wasn't following her. Could have been a host of things, I suppose, from previous bowel/abdominal surgery, etc. to who-knows-what. All I know is that it was disgusting.

-TT

Which is precisely why the sCAM folks want you to avoid it with regular intake of their "preventative remedy"...nevermind that most of us aren't at risk of having that happen, ever. They don't mind leaving out why it would ever happen.

 

[Boo]

The worst are still abcesses. Nothing beats an abcess in the puke-o-rama department. It's just dead, decaying, rotting flesh smell

You mean that Stage 4 gangrenous, pseudomonis positive that requires more guaze than the floor has in stock for the wet to dry packed dressing abcess or just your everyday run of the mill Bartholin's cyst I&D abcess?


Feces wins hands down in the gag-o-rama fest.


Boo

 

[Rolfe]

I've seen an extremely constipated cat vomit faeces. The cat was very ill indeed though, and required surgery.

I just don't believe in this phenomenon as something a "nutritionist" would be in a position to witness in a community situation. We're talking serious, indeed life-threatening illness, and anyone in that state should be in hospital.

Rolfe.

 

[RamblingOnwards]

I think it has to be rather serious to end up with vomiting feces, and not just a case of not using some sCAM remedy regularly enough.

In the show, it was used as part a drive to have the government provide healthier (and therefore more expensive) lunch meals at schools. From reading the links (thanks everyone!) it seems that poor nutrition would cause encopresis, not ileus. While the nutritionist probably did have a patient with ileus andmalnutrition, they didn't tell us the malnutrition was a result and not a cause.

So - fact, but deliberately misleading. Or maybe taken out of context

 

[Rat]

Yes, I can confirm that it is perfectly possible to vomit faeces, as my better half's younger brother was doing so for some time a couple of months back. That was, though, after burst appendix, peritonitis, and life-threatening bowel trouble. I doubt it's likely under less extreme circumstances.

Cheers,
Rat.

 

[richardm]

What was the cause of it though? "Just" constipation? I

In the programme the doctor in question referred to "part-formed faeces" being vomited, and it was due to problems caused by poor diet.

He didn't say it was a particularly common thing, just that in his own experience it had happened. Oliver has taken this and run with it, because it's a pretty lurid anecdote that helps make the point that this stuff is important.

 

[Jas]

Ew.

 

[richardm]

I just don't believe in this phenomenon as something a "nutritionist" would be in a position to witness in a community situation. We're talking serious, indeed life-threatening illness, and anyone in that state should be in hospital.

The programme in question was repeated last night, as it happens. The nutritionist wasn't just some muesli-fuelled wonk but the paediatric nutritionist from the local hospital, and indeed the kids he was seeing were in a life-threatening condition in hospital. He had scans of an eight year old with a severely impacted small intestine to support his claims. I wish I'd taped it so I could transcribe what he actually said, to see if it seemed reasonable. It sounded so to me, but I ain't an expert.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Hard to say if this thread is for real given the OP. Wouldn't be a poster with a fetish for coprolalia I hope?

However, there are a number of things that can occur in the bowel. One is constipation. That leads to impacted stool and can block the bowel.

The bowel can be blocked by some physical stricture like adhesions or a tumor.

Then there is an ileus which essentially means peristalsis stops.

But to get feces to move from the large intestine where it forms back into the small intestine and further, you'd have to have reverse peristalsis.

I can't see where any of these except constipation are diet related. To get such an impaction it results in reverse peristalsis I'd imagine you'd be real sick by that time. There would not be any 'diet' change that could correct the problem. For kids, an enema and a lot of effort would be needed. For an elderly person you might actually need surgery if the enema treatment failed.