Israel tears down 80 year old hotel to make way for Jews ONLY

[Thunder]

Why limit it to West Jerusalem? Wouldn't the same problem apply to an Arab-only apartment in East Jerusalem too?

Western-style democracies do NOT allow housing discrimination based on race/ethnicity/religion. I don't care if its the USA, Canada, Britain, Germany, or France. Provide evidence of any of these countries allowing such a thing, and I'll chew them out.

 

[Thunder]

Do I really have to shed crocodile tears for the tearing down of a unused hotel built by the late Mufti al-Husseini? The same muppet who said on Berlin radio in '41: “kill the Jews – kill them with your hands, kill them with your teeth – this is well pleasing to Allah!” and solving the 'Jewish question' in Palestine?

#1. The lovely facade of the building is being preserved. This shows some appreciation for architectural heritage. I like that.

#2. Are you ACTUALLY suggesting that because the building was owned by the Mufti 80 years ago, that a discriminatory housing project in its place is somehow ok???????? Israel can fore-go its commitment to ethnic and religious equality in this case, as some sort of tit-for-tat because the Mufti was a bigot???

 

[Eddie Dane]

I don't think Thunder said that. He said he didn't agree to such discrimination and used US legislation as an example. I don't agree with discrimination of tenants on base of race/religion/etc. either.

I see a more fundamental problem with this building project. The land wasn't Israel's to sell. It's obviously in East Jerusalem, and that is occupied territory. They should have held on to it until a final settlement over the territory so that the internationally agreed sovereign state which would get the sovereignty over that piece of land (which may well be Israel) then could do with it as they see fit. But it's especially wrong to sell it to someone you knows will use it to house settlers, as all settlements are forbidden under the Geneva convention.

This.

These settlers then become obstacles to a peace deal, to make things worse.

 

[WildCat]

Housing discrimination against racial/religious/ethnic groups is immoral, unjust, and undemocratic.

I agree with this.

It is totally illegal in the USA

Not totally illegal. There are exceptions, such as owner-occupied apartment buildings of 4 or fewer units, or if someone rents out up to 3 single-family houses and doesn't use a broker or other real estate professional..

And of interest to this thread, religious organizations can discriminate on basis of religion, so long as that religion isn't race-specific, and any transaction is "non-commercial".

 

[bigjelmapro]

#1. The lovely facade of the building is being preserved. This shows some appreciation for architectural heritage. I like that.

How do you know its lovely?

#2. Are you ACTUALLY suggesting that because the building was owned by the Mufti 80 years ago, that a discriminatory housing project in its place is somehow ok???????? Israel can fore-go its commitment to ethnic and religious equality in this case, as some sort of tit-for-tat because the Mufti was a bigot???

So you wish to discriminate against orthodox Jews that need their own housing complexes?

Missing the point intentionally again I see...

 

[Thunder]

Not totally illegal. There are exceptions, such as owner-occupied apartment buildings of 4 or fewer units, or if someone rents out up to 3 single-family houses and doesn't use a broker or other real estate professional..

a disgusting concession to home-owners and "Libertarians", I assume.

what if a city is majority 4 unit apartment buildings and large 3-family houses? then they can all be "white-only"???

gross. that law needs to change. the possibility of using such exemptions to make a town or even small city "white only" or "Christian only" is just too great.

 

[Thunder]

So you wish to discriminate against orthodox Jews that need their own housing complexes?

Missing the point intentionally again I see...

"need" their own housing complexes?

how does one religious group "need" to be segregated?

what if Christians in NYC "need" to be only among their own, and want to keep out all Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists?

Do you honestly support housing discrimination if its for "religious" reasons?????

come on Bigjel.

 

[Thunder]

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diploma...m-hotel-corresponds-with-israeli-law-1.336221

Update: the govt. was not involved in the demolition.

but, Netanyahu fully supports the right of Markowitz to "buy private property in East Jerusalem".

however, he pathetically does NOT comment on the fact that the housing project will be discriminatory against non-Jews...specifically Arabs.

what an ass.

 

[WildCat]

a disgusting concession to home-owners and "Libertarians", I assume.

Why shouldn't a live-in landlord have wide leeway deciding who his/her tenants are? They have to live with them after all. I have a 2-flat, and rent out the upstairs apartment. I like being able to choose my closest neighbors. Sometimes prospective tenants just creep me out, and I'm free to reject those without worry that I'll be accused of discriminatng on basis of race, sex, religion, or whatever, and have to defend myself in court.

My current tenants are a Muslim family btw, which may surprise you. Very nice people.

what if a city is majority 4 unit apartment buildings and large 3-family houses? then they can all be "white-only"???

Theoretically, assuming all those apartment buildings are owner-occupied and nobody owns more than 3 single-family rental properties and real estate professionals aren't involved in any way.

gross. that law needs to change. the possibility of using such exemptions to make a town or even small city "white only" or "Christian only" is just too great.

Highly unlikely this could happen given the narrow scope of exceptions.

 

[bigjelmapro]

"need" their own housing complexes?

how does one religious group "need" to be segregated?

what if Christians in NYC "need" to be only among their own, and want to keep out all Jews, Muslims, and Buddhists?

Do you honestly support housing discrimination if its for "religious" reasons?????

Ultra-orthodox are isolationist in their living standards and requirements, of which are available to read, ie wiki.

Whether I support it or not is another question and not part of this argument, unless you wish to deflect on yet another thread?

 

[ddt]

The ultra-orthodox will only live in ultra-orthodox housing projects as far as I know. They won't even live in the same neighborhoods are non-orthodox Jews. And neither do orthodox Jews apparently have issue with being absorbed by a future Palestinian state.

I'm at a loss what ultra-orthodox Jews have to do with this.

Do I really have to shed crocodile tears for the tearing down of a unused hotel built by the late Mufti al-Husseini? The same muppet who said on Berlin radio in '41: “kill the Jews – kill them with your hands, kill them with your teeth – this is well pleasing to Allah!” and solving the 'Jewish question' in Palestine?

The main gripe here was not so much about demolishing the hotel, but that (a) the land was sold to a private investor, and that (b) that investor is going to let the apartments he builds to (Israeli) Jews. And apparently some people who liked the monumental value of the hotel managed to save its facade from demolishment.

So I'm at a loss what your post has to do with the discussion so far.

 

[Thunder]

Ultra-orthodox are isolationist in their living standards and requirements,

well, that's just lovely.

that does not mean they should be allowed to build apartment buildings in major metropolitan areas, and discriminate against non-Jews.

if the Haredim can discriminate against non-Jews, then the Muslims can discriminate against Jews, the Christians against Jews, the Muslims against Jews, etc etc etc.

soo much for a society that value equality, freedom, and diversity.

..case in point: my co-worker inquired into buying a house in a very lovely little area on the western edge of Rockaway peninsula. Its called Breezy Point. Its full of lovely homes and great beach access.

when he went to the real-estate guy, they asked him for references...from a Priest or Minister...ONLY. Not from a Rabbi, Immam, etc etc. It had to be a Priest or Minister. Clearly, this was meant to keep out Jews. Do you consider this religious segregation to be acceptable?

.....and more importantly, Moskowitz does not build housing for the Haredim. He builds housing for Jews, who can be religious but not need to be. You ok with that?

 

[ddt]

Why shouldn't a live-in landlord have wide leeway deciding who his/her tenants are? They have to live with them after all. I have a 2-flat, and rent out the upstairs apartment. I like being able to choose my closest neighbors. Sometimes prospective tenants just creep me out, and I'm free to reject those without worry that I'll be accused of discriminatng on basis of race, sex, religion, or whatever, and have to defend myself in court.

I agree with you especially in the case of live-in tenants. But I don't see why religion would come into that (and I say that as an atheist). I could care less if people pray before dinner; I would care if they prayed at 100dB at midnight - but then it's not the religion but the noise at inappropriate time they make.

Anyway, with the numbers of tenants below which the US law allows discrimination on grounds of religion, discrimination would be impossible to prove anyway - you can always think of other reasons. Even with bigger numbers, it's very hard to prove - unfortunately.

gross. that law needs to change. the possibility of using such exemptions to make a town or even small city "white only" or "Christian only" is just too great.

Has happened all over the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town

 

[Thunder]

Has happened all over the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sundown_town

disgusting and unAmerican.

 

[WildCat]

But I don't see why religion would come into that (and I say that as an atheist). I could care less if people pray before dinner; I would care if they prayed at 100dB at midnight - but then it's not the religion but the noise at inappropriate time they make.

I think the religious exception is for places like church property, and groups like the Amish who live in Amish-only communities. AFAIK it's legal for the Amish to sell land only to other Amish.

 

[Thunder]

I think the religious exception is for places like church property, and groups like the Amish who live in Amish-only communities. AFAIK it's legal for the Amish to sell land only to other Amish.

becaue they live in the middle of nowhere, I guess they can get a pass.

but if the Amish moved to Philly or Pittsburgh, and wanted to buy huge apartment blocks and use them for Amish-only housing, I would find that highly objectionable.

 

[boyntonstu]

yes, that is unacceptable and disgraceful. I thought NZ was a liberal democracy.

I guess I was wrong. I can now scratch NZ off my "nations to visit" list.

Great!


Now every condemnation of Israel Apartheid must be preceded or included with a condemnation of NZ.

Are there Arab only and/or Muslim only complexes in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and other Muslim countries?

 

[Thunder]

Now every condemnation of Israel Apartheid must be preceded or included with a condemnation of NZ.?

yeah, right. very cute.

does this mean any condemnations of Muslims from this point on must have an adjoining condemnation of Jews?

Are there Arab only and/or Muslim only complexes in Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and other Muslim countries?

these nations are not western-style democracies, nor do they claim to be western-style democracies.

not that it makes it any less wrong...but I think its fair to expect more from nations that claim to be western-style democracies.

if you can't fit the bill..don't use the title.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110109/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

um......if Israel is a modern western-style democracy, why are they still building housing settlements in Israel proper for specific ethnic and/or religious groups???

this makes no sense. every apartment building or condo complex in Israel should be open to all who have the right to live in Israel, be they Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc.

stories like this do justify accusations of Israeli Apartheid.

Thunder, just a quick piece of advice. To be taken more seriously, just use correct capitalisation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110109/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

If Israel is a modern western-style democracy, why are they still building housing settlements in Israel proper for specific ethnic and/or religious groups?

This makes no sense. Every apartment building or condo complex in Israel should be open to all who have the right to live in Israel, be they Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc.

Stories like this do justify accusations of Israeli apartheid.

Looks much better doesn't it? It's simple.

 

[Thunder]

Thunder, just a quick piece of advice. To be taken more seriously, just use correct capitalisation.

you could have sent this via PM, rather than embarrassing me in public.

but I hope that was not your intention.