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Israel tears down 80 year old hotel to make way for Jews ONLY

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Thunder

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110109/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

um......if Israel is a modern western-style democracy, why are they still building housing settlements in Israel proper for specific ethnic and/or religious groups???

this makes no sense. every apartment building or condo complex in Israel should be open to all who have the right to live in Israel, be they Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc.

stories like this do justify accusations of Israeli Apartheid.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Since when has Irving Moskowitz been Israel?
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Israel has to allow Moskowitz to build an apartment complex for Jews only.

what...did you think Israel was some sort of uber-Libertarian society?

I consider the level of a state's fight against discrimination to be one of a few litmus tests on their democracy.
 
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In 2009, after years of bureaucratic stalling, Jerusalem's hardline mayor, Nir Barkat, issued permits to turn the site into a development of 20 apartments for Israelis.
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Yup sounds like they just said, "sure just go ahead." He bought the site in the mid-80's.

About the only question is who owns it, and that's not exactly an Israeli issue since the land was conficated in 1936 by the British and passed from them to Jordon before going to Israel, who on sold it.

So the question here is, assuming that the sale to Moskowitz was in good faith, do you think that the Government of Israel has a right to tell Moskowitz what he can and can't do with his land?
 
PhantomWolf said:
So the question here is, assuming that the sale to Moskowitz was in good faith, do you think that the Government of Israel has a right to tell Moskowitz what he can and can't do with his land?
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In the United States, it is illegal and a federal crime to build a housing complex for a specific racial, ethnic, or religious community. If the complex tried to keep out folks of a racial, ethnic, or religious groups that they do not like, they would face a massive federal lawsuit.

I think this is a great policy...as it works to make the USA a more tolerant and inclusive society.

Do you support the right of apartment complexes or gated communities to discriminate based on religion, race, or ethnicity?
 
Thunder said:
In the United States, it is illegal and a federal crime to build a housing complex for a specific racial, ethnic, or religious community. If the complex tried to keep out folks of a racial, ethnic, or religious groups that they do not like, they would face a massive federal lawsuit.

I think this is a great policy...as it works to make the USA a more tolerant and inclusive society.

Do you support the right of apartment complexes or gated communities to discriminate based on religion, race, or ethnicity?
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I support a country making its own laws and not kowtowing to the US's laws.
 
Thunder said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110109/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

um......if Israel is a modern western-style democracy, why are they still building housing settlements in Israel proper for specific ethnic and/or religious groups???

this makes no sense. every apartment building or condo complex in Israel should be open to all who have the right to live in Israel, be they Jew, Christian, Muslim, etc.

stories like this do justify accusations of Israeli Apartheid.
Click to expand...

israel IS an aparthied state.
anyone who says otherwise is either naive or dishonest.
 
PhantomWolf said:
I support a country making its own laws and not kowtowing to the US's laws.
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I shall ask again. Please answer it this time.

Do you support the right of apartment complexes or gated communities to discriminate based on religion, race, or ethnicity?
 
I knew a professor who pointed to a picture on his office wall of a younger him and a group of friends in front of a building. I studied it for a second and said, "That's the Kind David Hotel?" "Good eye, young man." "How long was the before it was blown up?" "Five minutes."
 
PhantomWolf said:
I support a country making its own laws and not kowtowing to the US's laws.
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I don't think Thunder said that. He said he didn't agree to such discrimination and used US legislation as an example. I don't agree with discrimination of tenants on base of race/religion/etc. either.

I see a more fundamental problem with this building project. The land wasn't Israel's to sell. It's obviously in East Jerusalem, and that is occupied territory. They should have held on to it until a final settlement over the territory so that the internationally agreed sovereign state which would get the sovereignty over that piece of land (which may well be Israel) then could do with it as they see fit. But it's especially wrong to sell it to someone you knows will use it to house settlers, as all settlements are forbidden under the Geneva convention.
 
ddt said:
I don't think Thunder said that. He said he didn't agree to such discrimination and used US legislation as an example.
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Oh, he knows that. And I don't expect him to answer the question either, as his hesitancy to answer it is an answer in itself.

Yes, many fans of Israel who live in the USA are strong supporters of civil rights, equality, and freedom...in the USA. But for some very sad reasons, these commitments end at Tel Aviv airport.

How does an American suspend his disrespect of intolerance, bigotry, prejudice, from one country to another? I have no clue. But I do not suspend my commitment to democracy and liberty when I put on my yamulka.
 
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Disgusting. Putting aside the argument that East Jerusalem is occupied territory (which I'm not sure I agree with), a modern democracy should not allow housing discrimination (or any discrimination) based on religion or race.
 
mortimer said:
Disgusting. Putting aside the argument that East Jerusalem is occupied territory (which I'm not sure I agree with), a modern democracy should not allow housing discrimination (or any discrimination) based on religion or race.
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thank you. I am very glad we agree on this very important issue.

Israel would never allow a wealthy Arab build a large housing complex in Haifa or Beersheba, and have it stated that the complex was for Muslims only.

And if they did, I would have a big problem with that.
 
Quote:
In 2009, after years of bureaucratic stalling, Jerusalem's hardline mayor, Nir Barkat, issued permits to turn the site into a development of 20 apartments for Israelis.

Is my reading comprehension OK? I read "Israelis", but others seem to read "Jews"?
 
casebro said:
Quote:
In 2009, after years of bureaucratic stalling, Jerusalem's hardline mayor, Nir Barkat, issued permits to turn the site into a development of 20 apartments for Israelis.

Is my reading comprehension OK? I read "Israelis", but others seem to read "Jews"?
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Well, there's a couple of more quotes from the article:
Nearly two decades later, the Israeli government sold the building to Jewish American businessman Irving Moskowitz, a longtime patron of Jewish settlers.
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Moskowitz has a long history of promoting Jewish housing developments in the heart of Arab neighborhoods.
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Since capturing east Jerusalem, Israel has built large Jewish neighborhoods that are now home to 200,000 people, more than a quarter of the city's population.

In addition, several thousand nationalistic settlers have moved into the heart of Arab neighborhoods, living under heavy guard and fueling tensions in those areas. The Shepherd Hotel is in Sheikh Jarrah, an Arab neighborhood that is a frequent site of protests against Israeli policies in Jerusalem.
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So yes, the Israelis who are going to live in the apartment are Jewish Israelis.

(and the "occupied territories" argument is valid regardless whether the Israelis moving in there are Jews, Arabs or Martians).
 
Thunder, yes you are right about this one. I am not sure that the title is correct. It could be better written as "Israeli property developer tears down..." instead of "Israel tears down..." but fundamentally it should not be acceptable to build "Jewish only apartments".
 
angrysoba said:
Thunder, yes you are right about this one. I am not sure that the title is correct. It could be better written as "Israeli property developer tears down..." instead of "Israel tears down..." but fundamentally it should not be acceptable to build "Jewish only apartments".
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from the article in the OP:

Israeli bulldozers demolished a vacant hotel in an Arab neighborhood of East Jerusalem on Sunday, clearing the way for a new Jewish housing development that has drawn heavy Palestinian and American condemnations.

I think my OP is consistent with the article cited.
 
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"Israeli bulldozers"

Are you sure that these bulldozers are Israeli government bulldozers?

This sounds a bit strange to me. They are not bulldozers owned or hired by the property developer himself?
 
angrysoba said:
"Israeli bulldozers"

Are you sure that these bulldozers are Israeli government bulldozers?

This sounds a bit strange to me. They are not bulldozers owned or hired by the property developer himself?
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its the term used by the article.

and honestly, I have no idea who owned the bulldozers, be it the authorities or the developer.

all we do have, is the article.
 
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