Is there anything skeptics can't reduce

Huntster said:
Nope.



If it is true, I'm very relieved, too.
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Hunster, please stop using sarcasm as an evasive tactic. There's quite a lot of people attempting to engage you in a reasonable discussion, and you're abusing their good manners.
 
ImaginalDisc said:
Hunster, please stop using sarcasm as an evasive tactic. There's quite a lot of people attempting to engage you in a reasonable discussion, and you're abusing their good manners.
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"Reasonable discussion":

Ah, so people who don't believe as you do are your enemies, eh?

Statements like that make me sooooooooo happy that your kind are running our politics now.
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Yeah. Right.
 
Belz... said:
Short and sweet, but utterly useless as an answer because it simply presupposes that you, Huntster, are capable of reasoning. Evidence seems to prove otherwise.
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Well, then, (if you prefer) by doing as I damned well feel.

Since that is the norm of society today, I fit right in, correct?
 
Huntster said:
"Reasonable discussion":



Yeah. Right.
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You are the one who reffered to those who don't share your beliefs as "enemies", and I'm the one being unreasonable?

As for the politics crack, I don't like that people who a priori consider me an "enemy" are in charge of things.
 
So in Ecclesiastes 9 when it goes on about umm...a living dog is better than a dead lion, and that you should live life under the sun to the full as there is no reward in death, regardless of what you have done in life or how you die...it actually means, live your life as I see fit to tell you and you will be rewarded with eternal life in Heaven when you die. And you know, that's fine with me because I don't have to make the choice about which way to read it and then live accordingly.
 
Huntster said:
Well, then, (if you prefer) by doing as I damned well feel.
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Yeah, that's what I thought.

Since that is the norm of society today, I fit right in, correct?
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I was going to pop one of my usual snide comments, such as : "Oh, yes, you fit right in."

However, I'm forced to admit that, in the end, we all do as we damned well please. And, all too often, belief or morals is just a smokescreen to give ourselves good conscience while we do.
 
Nyarlathotep said:
You are the one who reffered to those who don't share your beliefs as "enemies", and I'm the one being unreasonable?....
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I did not write that "those who don't share" my beliefs are my enemies. You did.

...As for the politics crack, I don't like that people who a priori consider me an "enemy" are in charge of things
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Perhaps it is you who consider them "enemies".
 
fsol said:
So in Ecclesiastes 9 when it goes on about umm...a living dog is better than a dead lion, and that you should live life under the sun to the full as there is no reward in death, regardless of what you have done in life or how you die...it actually means, live your life as I see fit to tell you and you will be rewarded with eternal life in Heaven when you die. And you know, that's fine with me because I don't have to make the choice about which way to read it and then live accordingly.
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Citation please?
 
Huntster said:
Citation please?
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Ecclesiastes 9:2-6

I didn't break it up by verse, becuase it's actually suprisingly fluid.

All things come alike to all. There is one event to the righteous and to the wicked; to the good, to the clean, to the unclean, to him who sacrifices, and to him who doesn't sacrifice. As is the good, so is the sinner; he who takes an oath, as he who fears an oath. This is an evil in all that is done under the sun, that there is one event to all: yes also, the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead. For to him who is joined with all the living there is hope; for a living dog is better than a dead lion. For the living know that they will die, but the dead don't know anything, neither do they have any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy has perished long ago; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun.
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Nyarlathotep said:
Originally Posted by Huntster :
I did not write that "those who don't share" my beliefs are my enemies. You did.
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What Belz said.
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Belz:

You did this to yourself...
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Me:

And I'd like to be nasty right here amongst enemies, where my nastiness has the proper effect.
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I did not write that "those who don't share" my beliefs are my enemies. You did.
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Now, I admit that I am not now wearing my spectacles, and my eyes are getting old, and my reading skills may not be on par with yours, but please point out where I wrote "those who don't share my beliefs".

For the record, I consider those who don't like me, and/or who wish me ill as my enemies.

You can disagree with me all you wish. I really don't give much of a tinker's damn.
 
Huntster said:
Now, I admit that I am not now wearing my spectacles, and my eyes are getting old, and my reading skills may not be on par with yours, but please point out where I wrote "those who don't share my beliefs".
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It is implied in your statement. That you wish to be nasty here; i.e. a place where it canbe safely assumed that most of the people do not share your beliefs, since that is largely what differentiates it from some Christian board, the place it was suggested you go be nasty to people at.
 
Nyarlathotep said:
It is implied in your statement. That you wish to be nasty here; i.e. a place where it canbe safely assumed that most of the people do not share your beliefs, since that is largely what differentiates it from some Christian board, the place it was suggested you go be nasty to people at.
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Have you considered the possibility that there are other things which differentiate this board from Christian boards?
 
Huntster said:
Have you considered the possibility that there are other things which differentiate this board from Christian boards?
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Oh, oh! I'll make a list.

1) We tolerate even people who condem us to hell.

2) We don't condem people to hell.

3) We consider the meaning of biblical passages when we quote them.

4) We google.

5) We admit when we've made a mistake.
 
Tricky said:
As you say, this isn't about winning and losing. It is about finding truth, or truths. And in order to sift down to truths, we must have a way of validating claims for truth or else the search would forever be following usless claims. How can a paradigm that seeks truth include a provision that the truth need not be verified?

It is natural for us to defend what we believe to be true. With religion, however, there is no way to do this. If each claim of truth is allowed equal footing because all claims are equal, just different from ours, then where does that leave us in our search for truth?
What then can we use to sort between wise and foolish claims of truth? I vote for evidence. Scientists don't reject claims because "they are different from ours". They reject (or more correctly, "disregard") them because they have poor or no evidence. How do you sort between wise and foolish claims? Do you even agree that there are such things as foolish claims?
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1. It can't
2. It leaves us in a place such that we should adopt critical thinking to the best of our ability.
3. Using the wisdom we see best to fit the situation.
4. I agree that there are foolish religious claims (dispensationalism: anti-christ, monsters, exclusive raptures, etc.) I deal with them often.

Tricky's response has a lot to do with the original post. I made the petri-dish illustration (seems like weeks ago...). I said that reducing the natural world into what can fit neatly into an 'evidence only' reality and disregarding all else is probably unhealthy. "Unprovable" things like art, philosophy, religion, romance and that general "side" of our human nature may suffer, and, as a whole, we (whoever we are) may suffer as well.

How then do we discriminate or evaluate that which is true and worthwhile? I would offer a more holistic response: evaluate with the right side of your brain and try the left as well. But demanding evidence for everything, IMO, seems, well a little too sterile.
 
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Belz... said:
Not sure where you're going with this. Science is there to understand the world around us, not satisfy every woo's fancy.



How about : "Oh, I DO have psychic powers, but the presence of skeptics inhibits them! Really!!"



I care about the truth. Ignorance is humanity's greatest foe.

So, no, I can't simply let everyone believe what they will, because ultimately they seek to impose that belief on others. Let's find out the truth, and THEN we can spread it far and wide.
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There are those who believe the natural state of humans is to be at conflict with one another--its just natural, and if you don't realize this soon then you're bound to be "defeated" by those who do see it this way and are aggressive enough and willing to make sure they're point of view triumphs over all else.

Then there are those who think the natural state of humans is to be at peace because the greatest outcome for all comes when we work together and cooperate--there's even evolutionary theory to back this up.

I don't know where I'm going with this; its just the first thing that came to these fingertips typing this stuff out-------a little tired and weary today...
 
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