Is there a way to prevent CTers?

[1337m4n]

Well I guess they should avoid this forum then...too funny.

MM

I can't believe I'm saying this, but MM has a point.

 

[JimBenArm]

So, the "fact" their noses are similar proves that Hillary stole the Senatorial election? Did you really just say that? Do you REALLY believe that?

Crazy people are my favorite flavor!

 

[Jennie C.]

Go to Google Images and put in "Bill-Clinton Winthrop-Rockefeller" a number of websites, in Japan and elsewhere, have their juxtaposed schnozes. Then Google "James Blythe," Clinton's "putative" father. Compare and contrast the various topographies...just for "yucks." Explains the Diebold machines' "beating" the polls for Hillary in N.H. and how a girl from Chicago via Little Rock got popped into the Senate from NY.

WOW. You're sumpin, you are.

 

[Gazpacho]

I agree that they are lacking perspective, and that reading more of any type of non-fiction book would probably help. Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm thinking that good, accurate, but short, books would probably be the best place to start.

No, I really don't. Other than maybe starting with American history. I really think people should be self-guiding or they won't stay with it long-term. My hope is that, after reading about the conflicts and screwups of the past, they'll stop expecting the present to be perfect (and looking for excuses why it isn't).

Unfortunately there's a risk that they'll read nothing but Politically Incorrect Guides, but there's not much I can do about that.

 

[boloboffin]

The Looming Tower is a fantastic book. I am about 1/2 way through it (I am a slow reader when I am trying to absorb all the material). The only problem I have with it, is he does not footnote. I would have loved to have such footnotes, so I could match the info with the sources, and from that critically resolve which info I felt was more reliable than others. In his after notes he himself makes note of the variance in reliability in sources, and how this effected what he did, and did not include in the book.

TAM

I wonder if he could be talked into a footnoted edition. I'll bet footnotes were not included as a stylistic choice for the target audience (the general public). I'm sure he could produce five times as many as he's got in the endnotes.

 

[winnietheblue]

No, I really don't. Other than maybe starting with American history. I really think people should be self-guiding or they won't stay with it long-term. My hope is that, after reading about the conflicts and screwups of the past, they'll stop expecting the present to be perfect (and looking for excuses why it isn't).

Unfortunately there's a risk that they'll read nothing but Politically Incorrect Guides, but there's not much I can do about that.

I would agree that if people don't choose to read something on their own, they aren't likely to finish it or even pay much attention to what they are reading. I am hoping that by mentioning and/or quoting from appropriate books in the threads, I can influence some of them to pick up a good book. Maybe that is the wrong approach, but...*shrugs.*

Thanks for the suggestions of The Looming Tower and The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark. They've been added to my reading list and hopefully they'll be useful.

 

[cisco]

The Demon Haunted World is one of my favorite books of all time. Sagan in general is one of my fav authors.

Your point #1, I do not see as a problem for the book, so much as a problem getting them to read it.

Problem #2, I would challenge them to do so, LOGICALLY.

TAM

It's one of my favorites, too. My copy is quite dog-eared. I've had it for ~10 years and I still pick it up, open it to a random page, and start reading often. Real Patriots Ask Questions, in my opinion, is the best chapter of any book, ever.

I didn't mean that these were problems with the book. I meant that these were the problems you would encounter recommending the book to CTers and potential CTers.

ETA: I meant to say something to the effect of: Troofers (and CTers in general) don't use logic in any of their other arguments, so why would this one be any different? They don't seem to understand the concept. Doesn't Zeitgeist the movie quote Sagan? Someone will have to confirm or deny because I'm not subjecting myself to that turd again.

 

[Corsair 115]

I came here looking for information to use on another forum where conspiracy theories (9/11, NWO, NAU...

If I may sidetrack for a moment, as a Canadian, I'd just like to say the "North American Union" stuff really, REALLY, REALLY irritates me. It's difficult enough for Canada as it is to manage the U.S.-Canada relationship given the current U.S. concerns over security and the rise of protectionist sentiments in certain quarters. Adding in the fear of a supposed U.S. sovereignty-destroying NAU only makes it that much worse, which is especially galling since the fear is utterly groundless.

Grrrr...

Anyway, in terms of such transnational conspiracy theories, perhaps pointing folks to non-U.S. sources of information might help.

 

[chillzero]

Talk about taking one for the team!

I had no idea you were so deep, Chillzero. I mean, I always though moderators lived in coffins.

Only on weekdays


Anyway, as to the OP, I think this kind of situation will only be addressed if governments add critical thinking classes as standard on school curriculae. If we can give children the tools to honestly examine what they read or are told - by friends, family, the media, the internet,etc, then we will take giant steps toward reducing the numbers of people who can be fooled by outlandish claims. One of the biggest problems is deferring to the 'authority' of someone who tells you something. If people learn early that questioning things is not a sin, then things may improve.

 

[leftysergeant]

iAmerican, will you do us all a favor and go back on your medications? You are rambling. And Diebold would matter only if you could prove that Bill Clinton won by fraud of the same sort. Weren't no Diebold BS then.

FAIL.

 

[iAmerican]

The Anti-Christ Is Not Monolithic

iAmerican, will you do us all a favor and go back on your medications? You are rambling. And Diebold would matter only if you could prove that Bill Clinton won by fraud of the same sort. Weren't no Diebold BS then.

FAIL.

Ad Hominem: BOLO
Non Sequitur: BOLO

Bye-bye.

 

[JimBenArm]

Anti-Christ? What in the world does that have to do with any of this?

Do you just toss random junk on a page and hit "post"?

You make as much sense as screen doors on a submarine!

 

[RedIbis]

Only on weekdays


Anyway, as to the OP, I think this kind of situation will only be addressed if governments add critical thinking classes as standard on school curriculae. If we can give children the tools to honestly examine what they read or are told - by friends, family, the media, the internet,etc, then we will take giant steps toward reducing the numbers of people who can be fooled by outlandish claims. One of the biggest problems is deferring to the 'authority' of someone who tells you something. If people learn early that questioning things is not a sin, then things may improve.

This is obviously solid advice, but doesn't improved critical thinking skills lead to questioning the official story? If people weren't skeptical and didn't challenge official positions, we'd all believe that the 9/11 Commission provided the definitive account of the attacks, we'd believe that Pat Tillman was killed by enemy troops, we'd believe that the towers collapsed due to pancaking, and we'd still believe that it was diesel fuel which brought down WTC 7. It works both ways.

 

[chillzero]

Red, I think you'll probably find that most non-CTists here did question anything that seemed unusual - whether about the official report or not. I don't see many of them entrenched in blind acceptance, although clearly this is a human trait not restricted to CT believers.

Questioning things is healthy. Ignoring the answers, or discounting the available evidence is not.

 

[RedIbis]

Red, I think you'll probably find that most non-CTists here did question anything that seemed unusual - whether about the official report or not. I don't see many of them entrenched in blind acceptance, although clearly this is a human trait not restricted to CT believers.

Questioning things is healthy. Ignoring the answers, or discounting the available evidence is not.

Are there still some "unusual" aspects to the official story that deserve critical examination, or has the full story been confirmed conclusively?

It might be interesting to start a thread listing all remaining unexplained, inconclusive or "unusual" aspects of the official story.

 

[GStan]

Only on weekdays


Anyway, as to the OP, I think this kind of situation will only be addressed if governments add critical thinking classes as standard on school curriculae. If we can give children the tools to honestly examine what they read or are told - by friends, family, the media, the internet,etc, then we will take giant steps toward reducing the numbers of people who can be fooled by outlandish claims. One of the biggest problems is deferring to the 'authority' of someone who tells you something. If people learn early that questioning things is not a sin, then things may improve.

I'm with Chill and others who have mentioned shortcomings in education. I recently began a graduate studies program and one of the required texts of my first course was a book called The Art of Thinking by Vincent Ruggiero. It was pretty basic concepts, laid out nicely, and it seemed a bit rudimentary for a graduate level course. While everything it covers would be of great value to a graduate student, I can't believe that anyone could even get through college, let alone get into grad school, without already possessing most of the critical thinking skills covered in it. The language and concepts are by no means complicated and, IMHO it, or some similar variation thereof, should be taught in every highschool in America.

 

[T.A.M.]

Are there still some "unusual" aspects to the official story that deserve critical examination, or has the full story been confirmed conclusively?

It might be interesting to start a thread listing all remaining unexplained, inconclusive or "unusual" aspects of the official story.

Absolutely there are. I would love to have more information on the Pakistani connection, however, I also realize that in the world that we live in, this is not likely going to happen. Pakistan is an ally of convenience, and unless that changes (and perhaps even if it does not), we will never likely get full resolvement of the questions around the ISI potential role (or lack of one) in 9/11.

TAM

 

[njslim]

Prevent truthers? How about bulldoze all the trailer parks - should account for 90%
of the breeding stock for new truthers.



Quote: In Arkansas if you divorce your wife is she still your sister?

 

[RedIbis]

Absolutely there are. I would love to have more information on the Pakistani connection, however, I also realize that in the world that we live in, this is not likely going to happen. Pakistan is an ally of convenience, and unless that changes (and perhaps even if it does not), we will never likely get full resolvement of the questions around the ISI potential role (or lack of one) in 9/11.

TAM

Since you realize that in the world we live in, information about such a relationship will not be investigated, are you suspicious that other important connections may not see the light of day?

Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

[beachnut]

If only they had some facts to go with their lies and fantasies. Like Nachos without chips.