Is the US Post Office socialism?

[jmcvann]

As has already been pointed out to you it is illegal for anyone but the USPS to deliver first-class mail, due to the postal monopoly law.

I think the point was that you could take your letter or holiday card to FedEx, put it in one of their envelopes, and send it. And pay a lot more than 44 cents. FedEx can deliver anything you want them to. "First-class mail" is, indeed, a thing that only the USPS can deliver, but that definition means a thing in a regular envelope with a stamp on it.

 

[WildCat]

I think the point was that you could take your letter or holiday card to FedEx, put it in one of their envelopes, and send it. And pay a lot more than 44 cents. FedEx can deliver anything you want them to. "First-class mail" is, indeed, a thing that only the USPS can deliver, but that definition means a thing in a regular envelope with a stamp on it.

Not quite. Under exemptions passed in 2006 FedEx and others can deliver such letters, but must charge a minimum of 6 times the price of a first-class stamp. And they cannot deliver it to a mail box.

If the post office is so efficient why do they need such protections?

 

[WUBRINY63]

If it wasn't for Christmas and birthday cards there wouldn't be a post office at all any more. Get rid of the law forbidding UPS, FedEx, etc from delivering those and the post office can wither on the vine as it should.

This is what you originally claimed. FedEx and UPS can deliver whatever they want. I have received Christmas cards from my mother sent inside a UPS or FedEx envelope. She had pay more but it was her choice. One of the reasons was I found that cards coming from out of state in colored decorative envelopes quite often would be open when I received them. Sometimes she called to ask if I received a card and it never came. The card may have had cash inside for my son. So as a safety precaution she chooses to send all our cards in one UPS envelope. FedEx if it's time sensitive. I have since told her not to send cash and if she sends a card by USPS use a white envelope. She doesn't listen though. But it is her choice.

 

[WUBRINY63]

Not quite. Under exemptions passed in 2006 FedEx and others can deliver such letters, but must charge a minimum of 6 times the price of a first-class stamp. And they cannot deliver it to a mail box.

If the post office is so efficient why do they need such protections?

If there is a law that says UPS needs to charge a minimum of 6 times as much I would like to see it. In any case I don't think they send anything for $2.84. I don't think they could afford to if they wanted to.

 

[WUBRINY63]

Which is probably why it is verging on bankruptcy. I generally like the USPS, but the reality is, its overall usefulness has been reduced with the advent of e-mail, electronic billing, etc. It was able to charge such low prices because it had enough volume to sustain it. Once volume goes down, as it has, it can either raise prices or cut services. It's going to do either, or both, before long.

I agree. But I wouldn't want to see it go away and need to rely on just private corporate franchised options.

 

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

If there is a law that says UPS needs to charge a minimum of 6 times as much I would like to see it. In any case I don't think they send anything for $2.84. I don't think they could afford to if they wanted to.

Postal Law - HR 6407 RDS - Sec. 503:

‘(b) A letter may also be carried out of the mails when--

‘(1) the amount paid for the private carriage of the letter is at least the amount equal to 6 times the rate then currently charged for the 1st ounce of a single-piece first class letter;

 

[WUBRINY63]

You are comparing oranges to apples. FedEx, UPS, etc., do not visit every single PO address every workday and do not have the economy of scale. They also have extra overhead the USPO can ignore, like registering and tracking packages. FedEx cannot require each delivery address to provide and maintain a delivery box at the recipient's expense; USPO can and does, which decreases their cost. And since the average volume of an item delivered is bigger (typically a box instead of a letter), FedEx/UPS are forced to use larger trucks at a higher cost.

USPO could have, but didn't, offer services like overnight delivery until they felt the competition from FedEx, which was the forefront of technological advance. USPO has always played catch-up.

Even with these differences, FedEx/UPS make twice the number of trips to my neighborhood as USPO; once to deliver in the AM, once to pick up in the PM. Sometimes they have multiple trucks to cover the same area. My single mailman comes by only once per day, even at Christmas.

And just to nitpick: your ".44 cents" is wrong, and 100 times too small. USPO charges .44 dollars per letter, not .44 cents.

I think the USPS does offer overnight. I don't know how competitive it is but I think I remember using Express mail. Do they not offer it anymore? They can also track mail if you pay for it. And do it cheaper than UPS or FedEx.

Sure .44 dollars. Still no one is going to be sending anything for you for .44 dollars exempt the USPS. How about even $4.44? Got an option?

Presort non-profit mail goes for like 16 cents. Who could compete with that if you're a charity needing to send out a newsletter?

Corporate or private business can also presort for cheaper than the full-rate .44. There is no competition for that to send out your invoices or advertising.

 

[WUBRINY63]

Postal Law - HR 6407 RDS - Sec. 503:

‘(b) A letter may also be carried out of the mails when--

‘(1) the amount paid for the private carriage of the letter is at least the amount equal to 6 times the rate then currently charged for the 1st ounce of a single-piece first class letter;

Do I need a lawyer to explain that one to me? jeez lol.

In any case can someone offer it for just 6 times as much at this point?

 

[WildCat]

If there is a law that says UPS needs to charge a minimum of 6 times as much I would like to see it. In any case I don't think they send anything for $2.84. I don't think they could afford to if they wanted to.

FedEx will ground ship a 1lb package for $4.54, the USPS wants $4.90 to send a 1lb package via parcel post. Guess which one will arrive first?

Here's your law, the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006:

SEC. 503. PRIVATE CARRIAGE OF LETTERS.

(a) IN GENERAL- Section 601 of title 39, United States Code, is amended by striking subsection (b) and inserting the following:


(b) A letter may also be carried out of the mails when--

(1) the amount paid for the private carriage of the letter is at least the amount equal to 6 times the rate then currently charged for the 1st ounce of a single-piece first class letter;


(2) the letter weighs at least 12 1/2 ounces;

eta: damn, ACWARP beat me to it!

 

[Alt+F4]

Whatever the workers at my post office are getting paid it is far too much. Whenever I go there (and thankfully I only have to go there once a year at most any more) 2 of the 3 workers (each one fatter than the next) are on break. The line snakes out the door, it will take at least half an hour to get to the front of the line. The one person not on break works at a snail's pace, seemingly oblivious to the line of people waiting. Periodically she'll walk s-l-o-w-l-y to the back and disappear for a few minutes. It's maddening.

That's exactly what happens to my post office too. What's even more stressful (to me at least) is when the people on the line start screaming at the postal workers then at each other.

I do have some sympathy for postal workers though. Everyone hates them, they have to wear ugly uniforms, and if you're a letter carrier you have to deal with dangerous dogs and creepy people. Your job is mind-numbingly borning and 90% of the mail you deliver is unwanted (bills and junk mail). When you're sorting the mail it never stops, there is no sense of accomplishment.

Three things I think will keep the post office going for awhile longer - junk mail, nextflix and ebay.

 

[Juniversal]

Whatever the workers at my post office are getting paid it is far too much. Whenever I go there (and thankfully I only have to go there once a year at most any more) 2 of the 3 workers (each one fatter than the next) are on break. The line snakes out the door, it will take at least half an hour to get to the front of the line. The one person not on break works at a snail's pace, seemingly oblivious to the line of people waiting. Periodically she'll walk s-l-o-w-l-y to the back and disappear for a few minutes. It's maddening.

The one who delivers my mail to my house is always (seriously, I have never seen her not on the phone) on her cell phone, yapping it up with her girlfriends and invariably puts my mail in my tenant's slot and vice versa. Often I get mail meant for people who live blocks away.

These people are less than worthless.

Sounds pretty bad. My post office isn't half as bad. I also have sympathy for them because both my mother and grandmother used to work for the U.S. postal service. Definantely weren't getting overpaid.

Three things I think will keep the post office going for awhile longer - junk mail, nextflix and ebay.

And Amazon. I Order from them on a regular basis. But if Amazon/Ebay/Netflix starts shipping the majority of their items through UPS, Fed Ex or what not, then USPS has it bad.

 

[WUBRINY63]

FedEx will ground ship a 1lb package for $4.54, the USPS wants $4.90 to send a 1lb package via parcel post. Guess which one will arrive first?

Here's your law, the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006:


eta: damn, ACWARP beat me to it!

FedEx and UPS go by zone. Meaning depending on how far you want to send it determines the price. USPS also has services based on zone like parcel post and priority mail. However USPS letter rates are the same for every part of the continental US, HI, AK, PR, US-VI, and I believe Guam.

 

[Hokulele]

FedEx will ground ship a 1lb package for $4.54, the USPS wants $4.90 to send a 1lb package via parcel post. Guess which one will arrive first?

nitpick

That only works if you live in the Continental US. Just sayin'.

/nitpick

 

[WildCat]

nitpick

That only works if you live in the Continental US. Just sayin'.

/nitpick

Well if you want to trade Chicago's weather for yours and slightly higher FedEx rates I think we could work something out. You have to keep Dog thr bounty hunter though...

 

[Nogbad]

What no Post Office? - no Cliff from Cheers? Infamy!

 

[Dr Adequate]

Of course this evil Communist proposal to institute a national post office is socialism. If people have a public option, then it will be impossible to run a private delivery service, and so such services will magically cease to exist.

Also, if municipal governments provide public lavatories, then the end result of this will be that the government will own my toilet.

Oh, wait, hold on ... I have reality on the other line ... apparently it feels an urgent need to talk to me ... I'll get back to you.

 

[Leif Roar]

If the post office is so efficient why do they need such protections?

Because the post office has a universal service obligation: they have to deliver mail from everyone and everywhere to everyone and everywhere, and they have to be affordable everywhere. FedEx and UPS does not have that obligation.

 

[WildCat]

Because the post office has a universal service obligation: they have to deliver mail from everyone and everywhere to everyone and everywhere, and they have to be affordable everywhere. FedEx and UPS does not have that obligation.

So why not just have a radically slimmed down post office serving rural areas not served by FedEx/UPS etc?

eta: and as far as I can tell the only place in the US FedEx will not or can not deliver to is post office boxes, which they are not allowed to do by law.

 

[leftysergeant]

So why not just have a radically slimmed down post office serving rural areas not served by FedEx/UPS etc?

You mean let a corporation have the lucrative routes and stick the USPS with carrying mail into the hinterland?

Not even a good idea.

We still need the USPS for the same reason that FDR initiated the Rural Electrification program. The corporations were only going to pick the low-hanging fruit from which they could make a profit.

I kind of doubt that the corporate carriers would be interested in hauling mail out into the boondocks. They want to take over the service, they need to take ALL of the service and I cannot see how they would be able to maintain the same profit levels if they did, at the same or lower cost to the people.

The mail is part of the commons. Never has a corporation taken over any part of the commons without, in the end, causing hardship on the people.

Private mail would be about as good an idea as ENRON.

 

[WildCat]

You mean let a corporation have the lucrative routes and stick the USPS with carrying mail into the hinterland?

Not even a good idea.

We still need the USPS for the same reason that FDR initiated the Rural Electrification program. The corporations were only going to pick the low-hanging fruit from which they could make a profit.

And over 70 years later the Rural Electrification Program still exists, what it's doing besides sucking up tax dolllars nobody knows.

I kind of doubt that the corporate carriers would be interested in hauling mail out into the boondocks. They want to take over the service, they need to take ALL of the service and I cannot see how they would be able to maintain the same profit levels if they did, at the same or lower cost to the people.

Why would they have to take over all of it? For what purpose other than to satisfy your bizarre anti-corporate bloodlust?

The mail is part of the commons. Never has a corporation taken over any part of the commons without, in the end, causing hardship on the people.

Private mail would be about as good an idea as ENRON.

Ah, Enron! The last resort when you have no actual argument.

The only thing keeping the post office alive is delivering all that junk mail nobody wants from the corporations you hate.