Is the US Post Office socialism?

[WUBRINY63]

I'm not a big fan of the PO in some ways. I think they give crappy service and I think most of them are overpaid. I hear they are also losing money.

At the same time I find they are a necessity. Who else would deliver your letter across the country for .44 cents? Do they not collect enough taxes or charge enough for this federal service to deliver mail? Do they pay their workers too much? Why do they lose money?

Sould the PO be abolished and the mail go to UPS or FedEx or whatever other free enterprise that wants to step up? How much would they charge to send an X-Mass card? Is that outdated?

 

[leftysergeant]

Do they not collect enough taxes or charge enough for this federal service to deliver mail? Do they pay their workers too much? Why do they lose money?

As I recall, Nixon started moving the post office toward a corporate model and it starting costing more and more to send a first-class letter. I donm't fully understand the effect of the changes, but I do recall that there was a lot of graft at the top, and a lot of money going to bonuses and perks for executives.

If anybody is getting paid too much, it is not the mail handlers.

Sould the PO be abolished and the mail go to UPS or FedEx or whatever other free enterprise that wants to step up? How much would they charge to send an X-Mass card? Is that outdated?

I almost responded in a manner that would have me sitting in time-out.

NO!

Private industry has screwed up every government function they have gotten their hands on that I can recall. Keep their grubby hands off our mail. It isn't supposed to be a profit center in the first place.

Privatizing the mail would work as well as privatizing the Public Utillities Districts did.

 

[Darth Rotor]

If you look at the mail as the original information highway, before the internet took that label, it is much like a highway system in terms of its universal benefit across the entire spectrum of activity both public and private.

Calling it "socialism" is calling the King of England, circa 1750, a Socialist It was the The Royal Mail (The Royal Post?) and its reliability that our system was originally modeled. (Why do you thing we have a Postmaster General, for example? ) Trivia: Old US Route 1 in New England is in some stretches calle The Post Road.

Perhaps the US Postal service is vile Monarchism rearing its ugly head in the US!

DR

 

[WUBRINY63]

If you look at the mail as the original information highway, before the internet took that label, it is much like a highway system in terms of its universal benefit across the entire spectrum of activity both public and private.

Calling it "socialism" is calling the King of England, circa 1750, a Socialist It was the The Royal Mail (The Royal Post?) and its reliability that our system was originally modeled. (Why do you thing we have a Postmaster General, for example? ) Trivia: Old US Route 1 in New England is in some stretches calle The Post Road.

Perhaps the US Postal service is vile Monarchism rearing its ugly head in the US!

DR

Okay. Why not the same for health care? A Health Master General?

 

[WUBRINY63]

As I recall, Nixon started moving the post office toward a corporate model and it starting costing more and more to send a first-class letter. I donm't fully understand the effect of the changes, but I do recall that there was a lot of graft at the top, and a lot of money going to bonuses and perks for executives.

If anybody is getting paid too much, it is not the mail handlers.

I almost responded in a manner that would have me sitting in time-out.

NO!

Private industry has screwed up every government function they have gotten their hands on that I can recall. Keep their grubby hands off our mail. It isn't supposed to be a profit center in the first place.

Privatizing the mail would work as well as privatizing the Public Utillities Districts did.

So it follows too much of a corporate model? That's an interesting take. Too many chiefs and not enough Indians.

 

[WildCat]

As I recall, Nixon started moving the post office toward a corporate model and it starting costing more and more to send a first-class letter. I donm't fully understand the effect of the changes, but I do recall that there was a lot of graft at the top, and a lot of money going to bonuses and perks for executives.

It costs more when the subsidies are removed. And volume goes down. Snail mail is dying, and nothing can save it at this point. It's about as relevant as the pony express.

If anybody is getting paid too much, it is not the mail handlers.

Whatever the workers at my post office are getting paid it is far too much. Whenever I go there (and thankfully I only have to go there once a year at most any more) 2 of the 3 workers (each one fatter than the next) are on break. The line snakes out the door, it will take at least half an hour to get to the front of the line. The one person not on break works at a snail's pace, seemingly oblivious to the line of people waiting. Periodically she'll walk s-l-o-w-l-y to the back and disappear for a few minutes. It's maddening.

The one who delivers my mail to my house is always (seriously, I have never seen her not on the phone) on her cell phone, yapping it up with her girlfriends and invariably puts my mail in my tenant's slot and vice versa. Often I get mail meant for people who live blocks away.

These people are less than worthless.

Private industry has screwed up every government function they have gotten their hands on that I can recall. Keep their grubby hands off our mail. It isn't supposed to be a profit center in the first place.

Privatizing the mail would work as well as privatizing the Public Utillities Districts did.

Couldn't possibly screw it up as bad as the post office. My FedEx, UPS, and DHL delivery people have never delivered my packages to the wrong address. And if it's something I have to sign for they are open until 9pm so I can pick it up after work, and rarely have to wait in line more than a few minutes.

I don't need the post office at all any more, I get all my bills and pay them online. And with email I haven't actually mailed a letter in over 10 years at least. Once the few luddites remaining do the same we can say bye-bye to the post office forever.

If it wasn't for Christmas and birthday cards there wouldn't be a post office at all any more. Get rid of the law forbidding UPS, FedEx, etc from delivering those and the post office can wither on the vine as it should.

 

[Drysdale]

As I recall, Nixon started moving the post office toward a corporate model and it starting costing more and more to send a first-class letter. I donm't fully understand the effect of the changes, but I do recall that there was a lot of graft at the top, and a lot of money going to bonuses and perks for executives.

If anybody is getting paid too much, it is not the mail handlers.



I almost responded in a manner that would have me sitting in time-out.

NO!

Private industry has screwed up every government function they have gotten their hands on that I can recall. Keep their grubby hands off our mail. It isn't supposed to be a profit center in the first place.

Privatizing the mail would work as well as privatizing the Public Utillities Districts did.

Yea, I knew it had to be the Republicans fault somehow.
Everything else is according to your logic.

 

[WUBRINY63]

If it wasn't for Christmas and birthday cards there wouldn't be a post office at all any more. Get rid of the law forbidding UPS, FedEx, etc from delivering those and the post office can wither on the vine as it should.

There is a law?

 

[WildCat]

There is a law?

Yes.

 

[WildCat]

 

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

Okay. Why not the same for health care? A Health Master General?

Urr... you mean the Surgeon General?? We've already got one of those.

In any event, off-topic post. This thread is about the USPS.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Okay. Why not the same for health care? A Health Master General?

Why?

For the past sixty or so years, health care has been assigned to "employers" as a responsibility. That is how our system evolved. Unlike most of Europe, the post war US wasn't as happy to go back to dependency on government for its needs, was happy to dump rationing and get back to "normal" (whatever the hell that was) and in so doing reverted to getting government out of its business where it could. Government got into everyone's life a great deal during the war years, which didn't necessarily go well. (Tire rationing, for example, gas rationing, for example.)

So, given the economies of our cross Atlantic neighbors were a lot more damaged by the war, it is no surprise the government dependency was more easily accepted. The vestiges of that remain, and in some cases, people are happy it worked out that way.

On this side of the pond, if you bother to learn what the core strains of American political activity are, the Jeffersonian and Jacksonian distrust of government as a necessary evil has sustained since the nation's birth.

Go figure.

Add to that the demonstrated shambles government made of welfare, a similar something for nothing system, and you might, just might, get a clue as to the wariness a core group of Americans have at a

CHANGE

to the system.

You lay out an intelligent road map for change or reform, and you may get more support.

If you lay out a change and assume away the transition process, which is part of where the public debate on this misses the core pont, then all you are doing is playing

I wish I had a pony

with the nebulous concept of health care for all as your pony.

Back the mail: you pay for your mail service as well.

It isn't free.

DR

 

[WUBRINY63]

Urr... you mean the Surgeon General?? We've already got one of those.

In any event, off-topic post. This thread is about the USPS.

No. I mean more in the capacity of a public option leader for healthcare. The surgeon general is more like an informational tool. We could use more than just things like warnings on cigarette packs.

Keep on topic please. This thread is about the USPS, not healthcare. See rule 11 of the Membership Agreement.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode

 

[Darth Rotor]

No. I mean more in the capacity of a public option leader for healthcare. The surgeon general is more like an informational tool. We could use more than just things like warnings on cigarette packs.

No, you asked about the Post Office. If you want to talk health care, go to one of the MANY threads on it.

Or maybe you are being dishonest in your OP? Is that it? Trying to deceive your way into a health care debate with Post Office as bait?

On the internet?

Who would have thought?

DR

 

[WUBRINY63]

Why?

For the past sixty or so years, health care has been assigned to "employers" as a responsibility. That is how our system evolved. Unlike most of Europe, the post war US wasn't as happy to go back to dependency on government for its needs, was happy to dump rationing and get back to "normal" (whatever the hell that was) and in so doing reverted to getting government out of its business where it could. Government got into everyone's life a great deal during the war years, which didn't necessarily go well. (Tire rationing, for example, gas rationing, for example.)

So, given the economies of our cross Atlantic neighbors were a lot more damaged by the war, it is no surprise the government dependency was more easily accepted. The vestiges of that remain, and in some cases, people are happy it worked out that way.

On this side of the pond, if you bother to learn what the core strains of American political activity are, the Jeffersonian and Jacksonian distrust of government as a necessary evil has sustained since the nation's birth.

Go figure.

Add to that the demonstrated shambles government made of welfare, a similar something for nothing system, and you might, just might, get a clue as to the wariness a core group of Americans have at a

CHANGE

to the system.

You lay out an intelligent road map for change or reform, and you may get more support.

If you lay out a change and assume away the transition process, which is part of where the public debate on this misses the core pont, then all you are doing is playing

I wish I had a pony

with the nebulous concept of health care for all as your pony.

Back the mail: you pay for your mail service as well.

It isn't free.

DR

Oh I know. But like I've said before take your .44 cents down to FedEx and see what it gets you. If the PO charged as much as a dollar it would still be a bargin.

As far as employers paying for healthcare wouldn't it help most of them out if they didn't carry most of that burden? Would it mean more jobs?

 

[Darth Rotor]

Oh I know. But like I've said before take your .44 cents down to FedEx and see what it gets you. If the PO charged as much as a dollar it would still be a bargin.

What? I use the Post Office. What are you talking about?

As far as employers paying for healthcare wouldn't it help most of them out if they didn't carry most of that burden? Would it mean more jobs?

OT, not playing anymore.

DR

 

[WUBRINY63]

No, you asked about the Post Office. If you want to talk health care, go to one of the MANY threads on it.

Or maybe you are being dishonest in your OP? Is that it? Trying to deceive your way into a health care debate with Post Office as bait?

On the internet?

Who would have thought?

DR

I think we need the PO. I think we also need more public options and on more than just healthcare.

The bottom of the bottom in the US in this day and age should not be the threat of disease, starvation, and homelessness. It all should at least be elevated to the bad standard of PO service if nothing else. Because there are many who don't even have that much of an option.

 

[Sherman Bay]

Oh I know. But like I've said before take your .44 cents down to FedEx and see what it gets you. If the PO charged as much as a dollar it would still be a bargin.

You are comparing oranges to apples. FedEx, UPS, etc., do not visit every single PO address every workday and do not have the economy of scale. They also have extra overhead the USPO can ignore, like registering and tracking packages. FedEx cannot require each delivery address to provide and maintain a delivery box at the recipient's expense; USPO can and does, which decreases their cost. And since the average volume of an item delivered is bigger (typically a box instead of a letter), FedEx/UPS are forced to use larger trucks at a higher cost.

USPO could have, but didn't, offer services like overnight delivery until they felt the competition from FedEx, which was the forefront of technological advance. USPO has always played catch-up.

Even with these differences, FedEx/UPS make twice the number of trips to my neighborhood as USPO; once to deliver in the AM, once to pick up in the PM. Sometimes they have multiple trucks to cover the same area. My single mailman comes by only once per day, even at Christmas.

And just to nitpick: your ".44 cents" is wrong, and 100 times too small. USPO charges .44 dollars per letter, not .44 cents.

 

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

Oh I know. But like I've said before take your .44 cents down to FedEx and see what it gets you. If the PO charged as much as a dollar it would still be a bargin.

Which is probably why it is verging on bankruptcy. I generally like the USPS, but the reality is, its overall usefulness has been reduced with the advent of e-mail, electronic billing, etc. It was able to charge such low prices because it had enough volume to sustain it. Once volume goes down, as it has, it can either raise prices or cut services. It's going to do either, or both, before long.

 

[WildCat]

Oh I know. But like I've said before take your .44 cents down to FedEx and see what it gets you. If the PO charged as much as a dollar it would still be a bargin.

As has already been pointed out to you it is illegal for anyone but the USPS to deliver first-class mail, due to the postal monopoly law.