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Split Thread Is Nessie a shark?

I don't believe any of those Great White sightings have been confirmed, however, have they? Until one can be confirmed, I'm going to lean more towards mistaken identity involving mako, porbeagle or basking sharks. Porbeagle and mako are in the same family as white sharks, and fleeting glances could easily lead to false identification.
 
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So, sharks should come via a densely trafficked river or canal going through inhabited areas, but never ever be observed till they are out in the huge and relatively desolate Loch Ness?

Mmm, I think not.

Hans
 
Personally, coming from Scotland, I'm pretty convinced Nessie is the result of 4 or 5 drams of The Balvenie, depending on your tolerance for alcohol. :D
 
Personally, coming from Scotland, I'm pretty convinced Nessie is the result of 4 or 5 drams of The Balvenie, depending on your tolerance for alcohol. :D

I think that has always been the most plausible explanation. ;)

Hans
 
It's interesting, this tendency to pigeonhole the Loch Ness Monster as this or that. For some, Nessie is a plesiosaur, end of discussion. Others attempt more relatively reasonable explanations (e.g., long-necked seals, sharks, sturgeon, eels), but ultimately they are still pigeonholing (The Loch Ness Monster is X and not Y or Z).

Ronald Binns, in his book The Loch Ness Mystery Solved, demonstrated to my satisfaction that Nessie is many things; outright hoaxes, misidentified waves/animals/flotsam, mirages, exaggerations, folklore, shoddy research, etc. What it is almost certainly not is some prehistoric marine reptile, paranormal manifestation or heretofore undiscovered animal.

The 1911 edition of The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English defines a monster as an "imaginary animal composed of incongruous elements". For example a griffin can be considered a monster in that it is part eagle and part lion.

In that sense of the word, believers in Nessie are correct (albeit inadvertently) that Loch Ness truly is inhabited by a "monster". It's just that the "monster" in question is part otter, part boat wake, part toy submarine...
 
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Ronald Binns, in his book The Loch Ness Mystery Solved, demonstrated to my satisfaction that Nessie is many things; outright hoaxes, misidentified waves/animals/flotsam, mirages, exaggerations, folklore, shoddy research, etc. What it is almost certainly not is some prehistoric marine reptile, paranormal manifestation or heretofore undiscovered animal.

Exactly. The same thing can be applied to all popular cryptid myths, imo.
 
Why would it need to operate loch gates on the canal? Sharks have been proposed as a theory for the "monster" for many years, not once has that theory been questioned because of a sharks inability to operate loch gates, lol. Many scientists agree that if there is a particular creature responsible for such sightings, then it comes in from the sea. Sturgeon do this very thing all the time, as do seals and the like.

As I posted earlier, there is mounting evidence to suggest that Greenland sharks can adapt to fresh-water. There is an awful lot that we didn't know about these shark, that we're only just beginning to understand. They were thought of as docile creatures, and that definitely isn't so: https://www.adn.com/science/article...monster-alaska-lake-sleeper-shark/2012/05/03/

Again, though, this isn't my personal theory.

Well that is true to the extent than humans "came from the sea" but that's about all. Sightings of Nessie comes from people, and a lot of people who have vested interests in the sightings...

Plus from the descriptions of sightings it would be a bloody gigantic shark, which I think might have been spotted swimming from the sea to the loch...
 
The description of the thing crossing the road perfectly matches a large snake that's just swallowed a big meal. I know there aren't any anacondas in Scotland unless someone has transported them there - and that wouldn't be easy...
 
Has the "large eel" theory ever been debunked? It seems somewhat plausible to me that some of the accounts could be attributed to large eels. Obviously not the crossing the road account unless it was a very ambitious eel.
 
The largest eel doesn't seem sufficiently large to constitute a monster. So there's nothing to debunk there.
 
Has the "large eel" theory ever been debunked? It seems somewhat plausible to me that some of the accounts could be attributed to large eels. Obviously not the crossing the road account unless it was a very ambitious eel.


There are two different things here:

1) The Nessie myth as such. There is, AFAIK, no hypothesis that can really explain it, other than it is the stuff all myths are made of.

2) Various individual "sightings". Once the myth exists, a lot of things might plausibly explain an individual sighting. Practically any animal above newt size, whisky, fantasy, and, of course, fabrication.

Hans
 
The largest eel doesn't seem sufficiently large to constitute a monster. So there's nothing to debunk there.


But that blanket dismissal disregards key flaws in human perception and memory:

1. The difficulty in accurately estimating the size of an object seen at a distance, particularly if the object is set against a backdrop (e.g., a Scottish lake) that makes an accurate estimation even more difficult.

2. The tendency to embellish or exaggerate a story over time, especially if the story brings the storyteller a degree of welcome notoriety. Contrast the Spicers' estimate of the monster's size in early accounts (6-8 feet in length) to what they claimed in later retellings of the same incident (up to 30 feet in length).

Combine with these factors with the (subconscious or otherwise) desire of the eyewitness to join the chosen few who have beheld the legendary Loch Ness Monster, thereby writing themselves into the monster lore.

The supposedly "skeptical" stance that Nessie is one (and only one) of the following: a seal, an otter, a boat wake, an eel, etc., IMO is in its own way every bit as wrong as the "woo" claim that Nessie is a plesiosaur or some strange entity out of pagan myth. There have been too many sightings, or more to the point, too many types of sightings for any single explanation to suffice. This may seem (at first glance) to run counter to Occam's Razor in that it doesn't seem sufficiently simple and elegant, but my claim is that Loch Ness really is inhabited by a "monster" (using the strict definition of the word noted in my previous post) that is...

part otter, part boat wake, part toy submarine...


Despite all my protestations, though, I agree that ultimately "there's nothing to debunk". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and extraordinary evidence of Nessie is (alas) as nonexistent as Nessie herself.
 
Once a contrivance like an alleged lake monster has been publicized, every unidentified flash, glint or fleeting glimpse from that location becomes a "sighting" amongst the excited onlookers.

Under normal circumstances, nobody confuses a glimpse of an otter or eel with a lake monster. It was just something they didn't see well enough to determine its identity.

So while it's technically true that some "sightings" can probably attributed to these things, it's as a result of people wanting to see a lake monster, not because these ever actually resemble or could be confused with a lake monster.
 
There are two different things here:

1) The Nessie myth as such. There is, AFAIK, no hypothesis that can really explain it, other than it is the stuff all myths are made of.

2) Various individual "sightings". Once the myth exists, a lot of things might plausibly explain an individual sighting. Practically any animal above newt size, whisky, fantasy, and, of course, fabrication.

Hans
3) Tourist industry, probably shocking to some folk but there is quite an industry built around the "legend". ;)
 

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