Split Thread Is Nessie a shark?

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Remember the Ol' Bigfooter go-to story of the Bigfoots Banana-Peeling Elk Carcasses, at which time I posted the scientific study referencing bear predation, and the process of bears pushing on the carcass with their front feet, and ripping the skin off of the carcass with their jaws, during consumption?

Remember that?

Well, I don't know how i'm going to explain this one as NOT BIGFOOT. Corkscrewed seal carcasses. No way a regular animal could possibly do this to a seal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EgJWFlm9ss

Wasn't a similar spate of corkscrewed seals put down to the Greenland shark not too long ago?

Ah, just clicked the link and yep, Greenland shark. Interestingly, Jeremy Wade once suggested that the Greenland shark was responsible for some "monster sightings" in various places during his Loch Ness episode.

Split from here.

Posted By: zooterkin

 

[Craig B]

Wasn't a similar spate of corkscrewed seals put down to the Greenland shark not too long ago?

Ah, just clicked the link and yep, Greenland shark. Interestingly, Jeremy Wade once suggested that the Greenland shark was responsible for some "monster sightings" in various places during his Loch Ness episode.

There are sharks in Loch Ness?

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

There are sharks in Loch Ness?

Not necessarily that sharks live in Loch Ness, but that one could've presumably made its way there. The loch is open to the sea, and there are sharks in the UK.

It's not necessarily my theory, but just one that was proposed by Jeremy Wade.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Not necessarily that sharks live in Loch Ness, but that one could've presumably made its way there. The loch is open to the sea, and there are sharks in the UK.

It's not necessarily my theory, but just one that was proposed by Jeremy Wade.

Loch Ness is not open to the sea It's a fresh water loch. The river Ness runs for about ten miles from the northern end to the sea right through the middle of Inverness.

 

[Craig B]

Loch Ness is not open to the sea It's a fresh water loch. The river Ness runs for about ten miles from the northern end to the sea right through the middle of Inverness.

The sharks may make use of the Caledonian Canal, if they can negotiate the various locks and drawbridges.
The abrupt switch to fresh water might inconvenience their physiology. Only some fish can switch from one to another at will. The Bull shark^WP can do that, but its predeliction for warm waters would make Loch Ness very inhospitable for it.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Loch Ness is not open to the sea It's a fresh water loch. The river Ness runs for about ten miles from the northern end to the sea right through the middle of Inverness.

"The Loch itself is connected to the sea via the River Ness and Caledonian Canal - both feeding into the Moray Firth. Loch Ness is 51 feet (16 metres) higher than sea level, is 23 miles long and 1 mile wide."

If you're correct then why would Jeremy Wade bother discussing the idea of a shark entering the loch from the sea? It's been put forward a few times by many people that something could've entered from the sea. It is apparently connected via the river, although, yeah, not directly open to the sea. Still enough room for things to pass through, apparently, which is all that matters.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

The sharks may make use of the Caledonian Canal, if they can negotiate the various locks and drawbridges.
The abrupt switch to fresh water might inconvenience their physiology. Only some fish can switch from one to another at will. The Bull shark^WP can do that, but its predeliction for warm waters would make Loch Ness very inhospitable for it.

There is some recent evidence to suggest that Greenland sharks may be able to survive for periods in fresh-water, too. Here's an interesting article:

https://www.adn.com/science/article...monster-alaska-lake-sleeper-shark/2012/05/03/

I know none of that is on topic, so, erm...Bigfoot!

 

[Andy_Ross]

I suppose this rare fresh water shark can keap up weirs and waterfalls like a salmon as well?
Or naybe it can operate loch gates on the canal.

 

[dmaker]

I suppose this rare fresh water shark can keap up weirs and waterfalls like a salmon as well?

Actually, yes. For years people thought the Lake Nicaragua shark was a distinct species of freshwater shark that was only found Lake Nicaragua. Not so.

"Initially, scientists thought the sharks in the lake belonged to an endemic species, the Lake Nicaragua Shark (Carcharhinus nicaraguensis). In 1961, following comparisons of specimens, the Lake Nicaragua Shark was synonymized with the widespread bull shark (C. leucas),[6] a species also known for entering freshwater elsewhere around the world.[7] It had been presumed that the sharks were trapped within the lake, but this was found to be incorrect in the late 1960s, when it was discovered that they were able to jump along the rapids of the San Juan River (which connects Lake Nicaragua and the Caribbean Sea), almost like salmon.[8] As evidence of these movements, bull sharks tagged inside the lake have later been caught in the open ocean (and vice versa), with some taking as little as 7–11 days to complete the journey.[6]" Wiki

This does not suggest that Greenland sharks do the same, or that they do so into Loch Ness. Greenland sharks are a cold water shark and I would think that such feats of agility and speed over long periods of time would drain their metabolism. I have not read anything about their tolerance to low salinity waters, but we do have them in the St.Lawrence seaway regularly. I can't speak to how far upstream they have been confirmed.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

I suppose this rare fresh water shark can keap up weirs and waterfalls like a salmon as well?
Or naybe it can operate loch gates on the canal.

Why would it need to operate loch gates on the canal? Sharks have been proposed as a theory for the "monster" for many years, not once has that theory been questioned because of a sharks inability to operate loch gates, lol. Many scientists agree that if there is a particular creature responsible for such sightings, then it comes in from the sea. Sturgeon do this very thing all the time, as do seals and the like.

As I posted earlier, there is mounting evidence to suggest that Greenland sharks can adapt to fresh-water. There is an awful lot that we didn't know about these shark, that we're only just beginning to understand. They were thought of as docile creatures, and that definitely isn't so: https://www.adn.com/science/article...monster-alaska-lake-sleeper-shark/2012/05/03/

Again, though, this isn't my personal theory.

 

[Pterodactyl]

It's not necessarily my theory, but just one that was proposed by Jeremy Wade.

Jeremy Wade, who I like and who legitimately understands his craft as an angler, says a lot of silly things on his show for dramatic effect.

Really, the whole investigative aspect of River Monsters is for entertainment purposes only as the majority of these "mysteries" have long been solved or never were mysteries to begin with.

 

[TripleScorp]

I think it's possible that the Loch Ness Monster sightings can be attributed to a lone shark but I think it's more likely that it's a group of seals. But I wasn't clear: are the corkscrewed seal carcasses found at Loch Ness?

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Jeremy Wade, who I like and who legitimately understands his craft as an angler, says a lot of silly things on his show for dramatic effect.

Really, the whole investigative aspect of River Monsters is for entertainment purposes only as the majority of these "mysteries" have long been solved or never were mysteries to begin with.

Oh, I definitely agree. Although I'm not 100% certain he was talking in total jest with re: to the Nessie being a shark thing, but at the same time I understand that he was merely making a conclusion for the sake of the show and doing it in a limited space of time etc.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

I'd also like to point out that I wasn't intending to start an "is Nessie a shark" thread, lol. I was just discussing the Greenland shark, which kinda led to this. For the record, I don't think Nessie is any one creature, but an amalgamation of things, mis-identifications, hoaxes, etc etc.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

I think it's possible that the Loch Ness Monster sightings can be attributed to a lone shark but I think it's more likely that it's a group of seals. But I wasn't clear: are the corkscrewed seal carcasses found at Loch Ness?

I'd say seals are definitely a part of the whole thing, a lot of seals are often seen in the loch, even recently a widely-published "Nessie-sighting" was most likely a group of seals at play.

No, the corkscrewed seals were from another unrelated discussion, one I've since forgotten!

Also, welcome!

 

[TripleScorp]

I'd say seals are definitely a part of the whole thing, a lot of seals are often seen in the loch, even recently a widely-published "Nessie-sighting" was most likely a group of seals at play.

No, the corkscrewed seals were from another unrelated discussion, one I've since forgotten!

Also, welcome!

Thanks for the welcome! I agree that it's probably an amalgam of different occurrences too. Fascinating information on the Greenland shark too. I like reading about sharks in general but have been largely ignorant of the Greenland shark.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

It is entirely possible that the sightings have multiple explanations. However, they cannot all be attributed to sharks.

Modern interest in the monster was sparked by a sighting on 22 July 1933, when George Spicer and his wife saw "a most extraordinary form of animal" cross the road in front of their car.[8] They described the creature as having a large body (about 4 feet (1.2 m) high and 25 feet (8 m) long) and a long, wavy, narrow neck, slightly thicker than an elephant's trunk and as long as the 10–12-foot (3–4 m) width of the road. They saw no limbs.[21] It lurched across the road towards the loch 20 yards (20 m) away, leaving a trail of broken undergrowth in its wake.

Source: Wikipedia.

Sharks are not generally known to lurch across roads.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

It is entirely possible that the sightings have multiple explanations. However, they cannot all be attributed to sharks.

Source: Wikipedia.

Sharks are not generally known to lurch across roads.

They're certainly not all sharks, if any where actually even sharks at all. My guess would be seals, sturgeon, ducks, logs, wakes, boats, hoaxes, etc etc.

I'd say the Spicer "sighting" was more than likely a crossing seal. There was even a suggestion that some sightings from way back when could be attributed to bathing elephants from a travelling circus. Elephants had been seen bathing in the loch before, intended for public viewing:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4779248.stm

"The circuses used to take the road up to Inverness and allow their animals to have a rest, swim about in the loch and refresh themselves..."

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

It is entirely possible that the sightings have multiple explanations. However, they cannot all be attributed to sharks.

Source: Wikipedia.

Sharks are not generally known to lurch across roads.

It's also entirely possible that this event did not even occur. If it did, then I'd guess it was more than likely a seal, of which there are many around the UK, certainly around Scotland, and definitely around Loch Ness.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

Thanks for the welcome! I agree that it's probably an amalgam of different occurrences too. Fascinating information on the Greenland shark too. I like reading about sharks in general but have been largely ignorant of the Greenland shark.

No problem, mate. Yeah, I love sharks, tbh, would love to swim with them...if I ever grow the cajones!

The Greenland shark is certainly an incredible creature, as are all sharks, and we're only just beginning to really understand them...even then, we're nowhere near to fully grasping them, or any other shark for that matter!

I wouldn't doubt that many sharks could be using the UK as a source of food when they're away from the Mediterranean. Plenty of sightings of Great Whites here, certainly around Cornwall during the Summer, even as recently as last year. Who knows? We definitely get a lot of sharks that we never realized we got, including Mako's, Blue's, Sevengills and more.