Is Marijuana Harmless?

[Abooga]

If that were true, it certainly would mean that MY generation wouldn't have tolerated it. I grew up in the 60s and 70s. If there was ever a generation that loved to smoke pot, it was ours. Yet still we have these inane laws. I think everybody just grew up and thought, "Yeah, we did it when WE were young, but we don't want our KIDS doing it."

I think the use is more widespread now than it was in the 60-s or 70-s. Then it was a more public and assertive thing, which got a lot of media attention, but minoritary. Now lots more people use it but more secretly. At least that´s the impression I get here in Spain. Here in some areas it really is so widespread that I´d say the majority of young people smoke or have smoked at some point.

Are we also going to become stupid old men and do nothing about this prohibition? Now many of us are convinced illegalisation causes more problems than the drugs themselves... I´d be more scared of my kid being caught carrying some stuff and going to prison than for the fact that he/she smoked.

 

[Georg]

As far as I can tell, the conclusion of all three studies is that MJ impairs driving abiliy, but not one's ability to recognize that one's ability has been impaired. Hence, stoners (unlike drunkards) tend toretain enough sense to stay the hell off the road while totally baked.

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I totally agree that staying away from the road while completely stoned is a brilliant idea. But if you just smoked a little one……..

THC's effects after doses up to 300 µg/kg never exceeded alcohol's at BACs of 0.08 g% and were in no way unusual compared to many medicinal drugs (Robbe 1994). Yet THC's effects differ qualitatively from many other drugs, especially alcohol. Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments. Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the former's users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence.

That is taken from the second link in post 179. Doesn´t that contradict the study you cited? So I´m still confused if I would pose a danger to the health of others and my own when I smoke and drive. My past experiences are that when I do so, I adapt something like a granny driving style (quite slow and very cautious). Since personal experiences are not the most reliable sort of evidence, I´m trying to avoid it as far as possible. But there are situations like waking up on a rainy Saturday morning, smoking a little joint to brighten up the day and then later realising that you forgot to buy something important from your shopping list the day before. Is it O.K. to drive in the afternoon then or is it not O.K.? Again, after my personal experience I´d say it´s no problem but on the other hand hurting or even killing someone because I made an easily avoidable mistake seems about the worst option possible. So, is there any conclusive evidence someone could show me?

 

[Georg]

Carl Sagan was a huge pothead.

So is Susan Blackmore.

http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/telegraphdrugs.htm

 

[IzakDavidxXx]

Sorry to come down so heavy Izak. Obviously you have a life.

Not Hard at all mate, I took on board what you said, and it was true, I was actually agreeing with you that I would have a better standard of life if I could quit. I have reduced my intake, but we are a product of our enviroment, my father smoked it, my uncles smoked it, all my friends smoke it, I said I'll never touch it, but to me it's better than drinking or powders.

For those that quit easy, it is not just because they didn't cut the drug, it is also because they had something else to occupy their mind. Chronic users, like myself find it difficult to quit, not only from the withdrawls (Tummy Cramps, irratable and headaches) but the psychological come down.
ie: 'welll I usually smoke a cone now, what else can I do'

I had actually stopped, then I tore a muscle in my back and had to take time of work, then I had a smoke and the cycle restarted again.

I am proud of one fact, that I no longer smoke the Hydroponic weed, because of all the chemicals used in them. That is were alot of the mental illness from weed can be traced to, the chemicals in the Hydro,

Thanx

 

[Cuddles]

So, is there any conclusive evidence someone could show me?

At the moment it seems better safe than sorry. The studies show that there is definately some effect on your ability to drive, but we do not seem to know just how much weed has how much effect. Given this, and given that it is illegal, it seems far more sensible not to drive after any amount at all until there are studies that actually show it is safe. As for the effects being no worse than many medicinal drugs, many medicinal drugs warn that you should not drive or operate machinery precisely because of this.

The flashbacks aren't as severe as the LSD and chemical drugs,

Chemical drugs? As opposed to the other kind?

 

[IzakDavidxXx]

Chemical drugs? As opposed to the other kind?

There are a number of natural drugs, not man made chemical drugs.
Such as: Bush weed, Cocca leaves, opium, daitura, Khat or Chet, mushrooms (psychocillibin)(spl), peyote, hashish and nutmeg to name a few off the top of my head.
Yes Nutmeg can get you high!!!!
(2 & 1/2 tbl spoons into coffee mug of warm water, and wheeeeee!!!! it's halucination time!!!) But the cramps when it wheres off are a real pain in the Gut.

There are junkie drug addicts (in Australia) that even shoot up Vegemite for the Vitamin B rush!!!!

The High times encyclopedia had a section in it where it showed you how to get a natural buzz from everyday herbs and spices.

So there are natural drugs out there, you just have to know where to look, and what to look for.

Peace

 

[Abooga]

At the moment it seems better safe than sorry. The studies show that there is definately some effect on your ability to drive, but we do not seem to know just how much weed has how much effect. Given this, and given that it is illegal, it seems far more sensible not to drive after any amount at all until there are studies that actually show it is safe. As for the effects being no worse than many medicinal drugs, many medicinal drugs warn that you should not drive or operate machinery precisely because of this.

Well, for example tetrazepam causes drowsiness and seems to impair driving ability, so says the prospect but it´s not FORBIDDEN to do so (over here). If it´s better being safe than sorry it should be forbidden to drive after taking tetrazepam, antihistamines and lots and lots of medicines that have SOME effect on driving ability. The prohibition for driving stoned comes more from the hysteria and mithology surrounding the drug than for real reasons IMO.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

There are a number of natural drugs, not man made chemical drugs.
Such as: Bush weed, Cocca leaves, opium, daitura, Khat or Chet, mushrooms (psychocillibin)(spl), peyote, hashish and nutmeg to name a few off the top of my head.
Yes Nutmeg can get you high!!!!
(2 & 1/2 tbl spoons into coffee mug of warm water, and wheeeeee!!!! it's halucination time!!!) But the cramps when it wheres off are a real pain in the Gut.

There are junkie drug addicts (in Australia) that even shoot up Vegemite for the Vitamin B rush!!!!

The High times encyclopedia had a section in it where it showed you how to get a natural buzz from everyday herbs and spices.

So there are natural drugs out there, you just have to know where to look, and what to look for.

Peace

I think the point was that "natural" substances are made up of chemicals too.

 

[Cuddles]

I think the point was that "natural" substances are made up of chemicals too.

Exactly. IzakDavidxXx, do you have some way of distinguishing between natural chemicals and manmade chemicals? If not it seems a rather pointless distinction to be making.

 

[D2011]

I believe there is a relationship between mental health & Marijuana. Up until 4 years ago my wife & I smoked everyday. Together we had a half an ounce habit a week. We smoked for around 15 years before we stopped.

I collected every bit of literature possible to support my belief in pot & to counter arguements from those against it. About 5 years ago my wife & I had a few very negative side affects from pot.

It seems to all stem from Hydroponic pot. I read the few entries at the beginning of this post that often refer to pot sold in Amsterdam & why dont they have a problem there? My wife & I being the pot loving couple we were made a few trips to Amsterdam & sampled everything on the pot smorgasboard. What I believe to cause all the problems in other countries compared to countries like Amsterdam, is because it is in the interest of the growers here in Australia, U.K & U.S to grow the stuff as quick as possible & as potent as possible, they fail to do one very important thing that the Dutch do...............stop the nutrients & filter it out with water for a full week before picking.

To people that are sensitive or have allergies like my wife & I, these chemicals are dangerous. Out of the 30 or so friends I had that smoked, only 5 of us suffered bad effects. Pot hangovers, pot rage (miss a day & you wanted to rip someones head off) & depression. But we could very much taste a chemical taste in the pot.

With a few particular batches around 5 years ago my wife developed psychosis over night & was hospitalised for 3 weeks. I developed clinical depression which took over a year to recover from. Both of us were in high paying careers & lots of good things going on in life, so nothing to be upset about, but it just happened. When I went to visit her in hospital, nearly 80% of patients in mental health were in for the same thing.

It was much easier to give up than cigarettes. It took around 3 sleepless nights with strong cravings & after 7 days it was all over. I totaly agree that cigarretes & alchohol are responsible for far more deaths than pot.

Most of my friends who still smoke dont get ANY of the symptoms we got, although another arguement could be made that some people smoke until their 70's & 80's & dont die from it, or get seriously ill, or alchoholics that dont die or develop serious illness from it.

If the way it is grown could be controlled like in Holland, decriminalisation would be a fair thing. Although I would never take it up again. Ive tried a few puffs since & since my tolerance is way down now, so just a slight toke wastes me for about 24 hours.

Marijuana (Hemp) with no THC content would also go a long way to stopping deforestation around the world too & easily feed the woodchip, particle board, cardboard & paper industry.

My 200 cents worth.

D2011

 

[Checkmite]

Carl Sagan was a huge pothead.

I think it's obvious that he wasn't under the influence during the moments he was writing.

 

[calebprime]

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I totally agree that staying away from the road while completely stoned is a brilliant idea. But if you just smoked a little one……..


...

drkitten has already given the right answer.

now, some of my b.s.

Yes, the actual danger depends on many factors, but nobody can give you permission. You may be no more impaired than someone who is quite old, or someone who is talking on the cell-phone while drinking coffee and worrying about being late--but you are impaired.

Should a combination of unexpected things happen, you will be much worse at handling it than if you were sober.

I never like to give moralistic advice, but: you should ride a bike, or plan ahead so you don't need to go to the store, etc.

Tyler says he had an accident when he was driving stoned. He was worried about getting home because it was about to rain and he'd left some windows open. His driving was just fine until he suddenly made a bizarre left turn into oncoming traffic. The people in the other car didn't think that Tyler's driving was "just fine". Fortunately, their child was unhurt...

 

[Georg]

At the moment it seems better safe than sorry.

Agreed. I was just hoping someone knows a bit more and could give me a justification.........Maybe someday.........
But I don´t see it as a big problem. I´m not that addicted. I don´t smoke before I go (drive) to work, for me it is a recreational drug. As is alcohol. So at the weekends I´ll just try to do better planning. Thank you.

 

[Georg]

Chemical drugs? As opposed to the other kind?

Trying to be Psychic: I´m quite sure he meant the distinction between natural and artificial drugs. I made this mistake as well in private discussions. Not everybody has a scientific background so don´t be too harsh
I only learned the distinction by reading on this forum.

 

[Georg]

drkitten has already given the right answer.

now, some of my b.s.

Yes, the actual danger depends on many factors, but nobody can give you permission. You may be no more impaired than someone who is quite old, or someone who is talking on the cell-phone while drinking coffee and worrying about being late--but you are impaired.

Should a combination of unexpected things happen, you will be much worse at handling it than if you were sober.

I never like to give moralistic advice, but: you should ride a bike, or plan ahead so you don't need to go to the store, etc.

Tyler says he had an accident when he was driving stoned. He was worried about getting home because it was about to rain and he'd left some windows open. His driving was just fine until he suddenly made a bizarre left turn into oncoming traffic. The people in the other car didn't think that Tyler's driving was "just fine". Fortunately, their child was unhurt...

Thank you as well. Even if you don´t know if there was a causation between beeing stoned and the accident, the saying of cuddles still true. As a father of a 18 month old daughter I´m not sure if I´d need a definite causation if someone would hurt or kill her while driving under influence and I could lay my hands on the driver.... But as mentioned before, driving stoned since a long time isn´t the thing I do. And I´ll avoid the exceptions as well.

 

[Georg]

Originally Posted by l0rca View Post
Carl Sagan was a huge pothead.

I think it's obvious that he wasn't under the influence during the moments he was writing.

But maybe it inspired him a bit?

 

[Georg]

Well, for example tetrazepam causes drowsiness and seems to impair driving ability, so says the prospect but it´s not FORBIDDEN to do so (over here). If it´s better being safe than sorry it should be forbidden to drive after taking tetrazepam, antihistamines and lots and lots of medicines that have SOME effect on driving ability.

I agree. If there´s evidence for the impairment, the same rules should apply.
If there´s no consistency in the rules, people probably tend not to follow them at all. Same with the legal distinction for alcohol and weed. If there´s no logical reason to allow one and to ban the other, there´s no other reason to follow the rules than fear of prosecution. And that didn´t (and still doesn´t) work for me.

Could you all please stop posting on this thread now, I´m supposed to work. Thank you.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

I don't understand the drug issue at all really. Here are some facts, see if you can make sense of them.

1) We know that for many drugs, like marijuana, the potential harm is much lower than that of already legal drugs like alcohol and tobacco. This implies that their illegal status has more to do with politics than anything else.

2) The alcohol and tobacco giants have a huge lobbying presence in washington and could probably get drugs like marijuana legalized if they wanted to.

3) The alcohol and tobacco giants have the infrastructure in place to jump to the lead in any new market created by the legalization of a now-illegal drug, such as marijuana.

4) Marijuana remains illegal.

What did I miss? It seems to me that the drug industry would make a sh--load of cash if marijuana was legalized. So why hasn't it been done?

Because anyone could grow it so they couldn't control supply?

 

[joobz]

But maybe it inspired him a bit?

Probably inspired him about as much as me playing Puzzlequest on my DS has inspired my research.

It's an escape. A pleasurable activity to break the monotony. It can serve to aide in eureka moments, but that's not its function. Smoke if you want, but don't pretend it gives special powers. I think the lesson from Sagan (and many who posted here) is that responsible pot use doesn't significantly impact the productivity of individuals.

 

[Abooga]

Probably inspired him about as much as me playing Puzzlequest on my DS has inspired my research.

It's an escape. A pleasurable activity to break the monotony. It can serve to aide in eureka moments, but that's not its function. Smoke if you want, but don't pretend it gives special powers. I think the lesson from Sagan (and many who posted here) is that responsible pot use doesn't significantly impact the productivity of individuals.

I think it´s true it helps getting those "eureka" moments. Most of the time you realise next day that what you thought was a groundbreaking discovery was a pretty silly idea... but sometimes one does come up with something new/good/original.

Perhaps what happens is that when MJ users quit for a while, they (we) are low on some neurotransmitter or something, which makes them (us) have less new ideas. And when smoking that first spliff after being "clean" for a while, suddenly you start forming all these new solutions to problems that were in the back of your mind. Sometimes it feels as if smoking is helping you think... but is it? or was the lack of THC lowering your neural activity before?