Is ESP More Probable Than Advanced Alien Life?

[Daylightstar]

Asserting the possibility of something certainly is a claim. In modal logic terms, cosmologist A is claiming that there exists at least one possible world where multiple universes exist.

If asserting the possibility of something isn't a claim, then what would the response be to a scientist who says Young Earth Creationism is possibly true?

So this thread then is about you making a claim or claims. How do you now feel about the burden of proof?

 

[Fudbucker]

Oh, by the way, I answered your question as meaningfully as possible.

You seem incapable of responding to the question of whether it's possible for a black hole to intersect the solar system in the next ten years. The answer is obvious: it is indeed possible.

Your inability to answer this very simple question suggests you're not serious about a discussion and would rather play semantic games.

Does anyone else want to try and explain why the existence of ESP is less probable than the existence of alien life (advanced or otherwise)? Desi gave a good response, but I don't share her conviction that science has reached a point where we're comfortable in ruling out possibilities, in light of the recent discovery of dark energy and dark matter. Desi is also assuming science won't rule out the existence of alien life. It is possible we may conclude, with a high degree of probability, that there is no alien life (e.g., we may discover abiogenesis is so unlikely that there aren't enough planets in the universe to make it plausible to believe it happened anywhere else).

 

[Fudbucker]

I notice you have changed back to the 'full' question again, which means I quoted you correctly.

You have not answered my question (in embedded link) about how you would determine the event you mentioned:

How would you determine if a black hole intersected the solar system? Irrelevant to the discussion of whether it's possible or impossible.

 

[Daylightstar]

Could you quote me correctly? I asked if it's possible that a black hole will intersect the solar system in the next ten years.

The question is easily answered: "Yes", it's possible or "No", it's impossible.

My answer is, Yes, of course it's possible. Do you disagree with my answer?

My answer remains the same:

This can not be determined.

E.T.A. in context of your original question whether such an event would take place in the next ten years.

Although you claim you can determine:

Certainly it can be determined:

It is possible a wandering black hole can intersect the solar system. Are you claiming it's impossible???

I have not seen you demonstrate such a determination. I'll ask you again:
How would you go about determining:

... that a wandering black hole will intersect the solar system in the next ten years?
...

 

[Loss Leader]

LOL, are you serious?

Loss Leader, there is no proof that 10 is a solitary number. Are you claiming it's not possible for 10 to be a solitary number?

I don't know what all that's about, but I do know the definition of null hypothesis:

There is no reason to believe in something for which there is no evidence. There must be some evidence, otherwise it is best not to believe in the thing.

Now, I see you trying to interject the concept of "possible v. impossible," but it seems you're trying to do that in order to slip in that we can't prove that something is impossible in all circumstances. This has nothing to do with whether we should believe the thing to be true.


I do not believe there is an invisible dragon living in my garage, though I do admit it is possible.

I do not believe in ESP, though it is possible. There is no evidence ESP exists.

I do believe in alien life because, not only is it possible, but there is some evidence it may exist.

 

[Fudbucker]

So this thread then is about you making a claim or claims. How do you now feel about the burden of proof?

I've made several claims:

Alien life is possible (it might not even exist).

ESP is possible (again, it might not exist)

The probability of alien life existing is the same as the probability of ESP existing. In modal terms, I'm claiming the set of possible worlds that contain alien life is equal to the set of possible worlds where ESP occurs.

 

[Daylightstar]

You seem incapable of responding to the question of whether it's possible for a black hole to intersect the solar system in the next ten years. The answer is obvious: it is indeed possible....

^{Hilite by Daylightstar}How have you determined that?

 

[Daylightstar]

I've made several claims:

Alien life is possible (it might not even exist).

ESP is possible (again, it might not exist)

The probability of alien life existing is the same as the probability of ESP existing. In modal terms, I'm claiming the set of possible worlds that contain alien life is equal to the set of possible worlds where ESP occurs.

What specifically makes each of those options possible, according to you?

 

[Fudbucker]

My answer remains the same:


Although you claim you can determine:


I have not seen you demonstrate such a determination. I'll ask you again:
How would you go about determining:

I can determine the answer to the question: Yes, it's possible.

Why would you ask if I could determine whether a black hole actually does come near us? Our detection of it has nothing to do with whether it's possible or not.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I knew you could do it, I trusted you and you did not let me down.
You are fabulous

I'm a bit disappointed, none of the lottery numbers you gave me worked.

 

[Daylightstar]

I can determine the answer to the question: Yes, it's possible.

Why would you ask if I could determine whether a black hole actually does come near us? Our detection of it has nothing to do with whether it's possible or not.

I did not ask whether you could determine an answer, I asked you how you would go about determining that a wandering black hole will intersect the solar system in the next ten years.

 

[Daylightstar]

...
Why would you ask if I could determine whether a black hole actually does come near us? Our detection of it has nothing to do with whether it's possible or not.

Because you said it was possible. My question was how you determined that such is possible.

 

[Daylightstar]

I'm a bit disappointed, none of the lottery numbers you gave me worked.

I didn't give you lottery numbers, those were numbers for a safe containing a million bucks.
I reckoned you didn't want the money so I spent it all.

 

[Fudbucker]

What specifically makes each of those options possible, according to you?

The burden of proof is on the person claiming X is impossible.

X (in this case, alien life) is either possible or impossible. Anything that is logically possible exists in at least one possible world (again, in modal terms). Alien life is logically possible, so it possibly exists.

Asserting the possibility of X, if X is not a logical contradiction, is a weak claim. It requires no evidence, only logical coherence. It is possible that I will win 100 lotteries in a row. It is possible the sun will explode tomorrow morning.

On the other hand, if X is impossible, then it exists in no possible worlds. That can only happen if X is logically contradictory. There is nothing logically contradictory about either alien life or ESP, so they both possibly exist.

 

[Fudbucker]

I did not ask whether you could determine an answer, I asked you how you would go about determining that a wandering black hole will intersect the solar system in the next ten years.

It doesn't matter if I could determine it or not. Do you think our being able to determine something has anything to do with it's actual existence? Did germs not exist before we could determine their existence?

But if you're hung up on determination, I'll simply ask you if it's possible a wandering black hole will hit YOU in the next ten years. You might be able to determine you were hit by a black hole before you're killed by it.

In any case, a black hole hitting the section of Earth you happen to be on in the next ten years is still possible.

 

[Daylightstar]

The burden of proof is on the person claiming X is impossible.

X (in this case, alien life) is either possible or impossible. Anything that is logically possible exists in at least one possible world (again, in modal terms). Alien life is logically possible, so it possibly exists.

Asserting the possibility of X, if X is not a logical contradiction, is a weak claim. It requires no evidence, only logical coherence. It is possible that I will win 100 lotteries in a row. It is possible the sun will explode tomorrow morning.

On the other hand, if X is impossible, then it exists in no possible worlds. That can only happen if X is logically contradictory. There is nothing logically contradictory about either alien life or ESP, so they both possibly exist.

Could you do one such post for ESP specifically as well?

 

[Fudbucker]

What is ESP referring to in your opening post? It can't be the usual definition as that has been disproved both theoretically and emperically,

How so?

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I didn't give you lottery numbers, those were numbers for a safe containing a million bucks.
I reckoned you didn't want the money so I spent it all.

That wasn't a safe, it was Dr. Schrodinger's pet carrier.

 

[Fudbucker]

Could you do one such post for ESP specifically as well?

I already did. If X is logically possible, then X possibly exists. X could be anything that's logically coherent. ESP and alien life are logically possible. Therefore, they possibly exist.

Physical possibility is another matter, although both ESP and alien life might be physically impossible. If Earth is the only planet where the conditions for life are possible, then alien life is physically impossible.

 

[Daylightstar]

It doesn't matter if I could determine it or not. Do you think our being able to determine something has anything to do with it's actual existence? Did germs not exist before we could determine their existence?

But if you're hung up on determination, I'll simply ask you if it's possible a wandering black hole will hit YOU in the next ten years. You might be able to determine you were hit by a black hole before you're killed by it.

In any case, a black hole hitting the section of Earth you happen to be on in the next ten years is still possible.

Is it possible that a fairy rides that black hole and lands on you instead?

E.T.A.: I mean, that this fairy intentionally lands the black hole on you.